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Sunyata and Maya

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.tantra,alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan
From: "jeroen hoogeweij" 
Subject: Re: Sunyata and Maya (was something else)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:37:55 +0200

Hi there!

Check this link out!


This is difficult. Gelugpas often state, that their lineage-current is
absolutely superior to others because it's unbroken (true) and Je Tsongkhapa
is the guy with the purest philosophy (explain), resulting in the most
stunningly kickass tantra method realising the highest possible goal. One of
the problems of Gelug-philosophy, is that they focus on the goal instead of
the path, to a large extent. They often state in their teachings, that their
mode of philosophizing is most superior of all. But there are two important
Gelugpa orgs operating in the western world at this moment, who have quite
diferent attitudes on the topic. One of them is the FPMT of Lama Yeshe, the
other is the New Kadampa Tradition of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. I believe the
key to this kind of sense of superiority, is represented in Dorje Shugden.
His puja is identical to the one of Je Tsongkhapa except for the name and
some mantra stuff.

Worshippers of this demon (ex-Dharma protector) bethink themselves to be
totally superior after awhile, one of the reasons why HH Dalai Lama did away
with the bugger; he is no longer propitiated by him. Devotees of Shugden are
heavily involving themselves in slacking off other traditions.

Once worked a puja with a few Dorje Shugden monks, who started talking about
the inferiority of other Buddhist traditions compared with theirs, how all
other Buddhist traditions are 'degenerated' and theirs is like the
proverbial diamond. They actually compared the Dalai Lama with Hitler in the
middle of the ritual (heh.. during the consumption of some horrid
butter-tea, supposedly a 'bodhicitta break'). Sounded pretty samsaric to me.
They also told me I should abandon my black magickal syncretic practices
(consisting of the study of other Mahayana traditions, kosher Kabbalah and
Hermeticism), so I wished them all the best with their tradition.

It's sad.. these thoughts are being transmitted and the methods of guru yoga
really let these thoughts take root in the mental continuum of followers of
Geshe Kelsang Gyatso; truly deep imprints of fanaticism. The're not allowed
to study anything outside of the scope of their little corner and think
that's the only thing around. This results in
people like our Tsering guy, making stupid one-sidede remarks like that.
It's sad and compassion should be shown towards him, step by step discussing
the tradition and taditional refutations of Je Tsongkhapa. There actually
are rituals to purify oneself from Shugden.


Definitely. Tried to touch on that in the mailing before. He's not aware how
different canon-lineages of older texts are present in all traditions,
encompassing the whole of the Mahayana; and how only the modes of
interpretation differ amongst schools.


But in the Gelugpa practice, this is certainly a possibly valid conclusion;
trusting the teachers he does, this is a possible outcome for the
weak-minded. Certainly the yoga tantra can be considered the method as cause
for enlightenment and the Madhyamika prasangika the formulation of this
enlightenment taking place, the 'result'. "Naropa's six yoga's", the most
important metastructure for most of the annutara yoga-tantras, is applied by
both Gelugpa and Nyingma (+Kagyutpa) schools. The philosophies backing up
the practice have differences, though the final results are quite identical.
The web of lineages travelling through various schools and sects is quite
complicated, but not impossible to trace. But the tantric methodology some
fanatic gelugs claim for themselves, are actually shared by other
traditions. (followers stay unaware of that, most of the times)


Yes. based on the prajna paramita, acknowledged by all schools, including
yogacara (Cittamatrin). I don't think the prasangika upholds that view
stronger, instead it focuses on the outcome, where other schools focus on
the process of getting there. Both are valid.

 <****To this I would like to add the following answer by "Sonam

 What is all this visualization nonsense?
 "Everyone knows" all western magic is done thru pacts with demons. It is
 "common knowledge" that western Hermeticists sell their souls to
 Satan, not practice visualization. >

Earlier on he went all the way on a discourse about his Vajrayanic sublimity
in Je Tsongkhapa, then he all of a sudden rejects visualisation practice,
which forms quite a large chunk of the practices in both generation and
completion stages of highest yoga tantra. It's for Lam Rim (Sutra, Mahayana)
people to say a thing like that, not for Vajrayana practitioners.

Yes.. the Mahayana isn't about all sentient beings at all, not about
universal brotherhood. We shouldn't try to understand others, but hide away
in our little corner and declare our superiority while being closed for
others. That sounds like a truly compassionate bodhisattva grasping the very
essence of the Buddha's teachings :-)

Cute :-) He would probably be really shocked about connections between the
masonic third degree and Bardo Thodol, but then again his lineage probably
isn't aware of this book, so it must be inferior and not at all Buddhist :-)

< ***My we take this opportunity to apologize to any Tibetans, and also
 to the sincere Hindu Tantric practitioners (including Tzimon) who have
 been directly or indirectly offended by this phoney who calls himself
 "Sonam Tsering". Until xennu confirmed our suspicions, and the above
 diatribe removed any further doubt, we were willing to consider the
 possibility of his genuineness. Now there is no doubt; he is a total

I don't think he's a fraud, just think he is heavily involved in a sectaric
tunnel-reality. Maybe he should be asked about Je Tsongkhapa's arguments
refuting variant interpretations of the prajna paramita, and if he would
actually be able to share some arguments. He should be able to discourse on

 <***Now, Jeroen-La, IMHO  this "Sonam Tesring" is as phoney as a three
 dollar bill -- but  even if we should discover that he is  a real
 Tibetan monk of some sort, then -- in service to our Tibetan friends
 and teachers -- we should all agree never to recognize him as such.

One of the root downfalls of the bodhisattva vow, is the 'taking away
saffron robes', even if the monk concerned has severely broken several vows.
So I think we should acknowledge whatever status he presumes (always a good
thought to build a very high throne for him) and assist him in avoiding



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