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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.tantra,alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan From: "jeroen hoogeweij"Subject: Re: Sunyata and Maya (was something else) Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:37:55 +0200 Hi there! Check this link out! http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-EPT/wilson.htm This is difficult. Gelugpas often state, that their lineage-current is absolutely superior to others because it's unbroken (true) and Je Tsongkhapa is the guy with the purest philosophy (explain), resulting in the most stunningly kickass tantra method realising the highest possible goal. One of the problems of Gelug-philosophy, is that they focus on the goal instead of the path, to a large extent. They often state in their teachings, that their mode of philosophizing is most superior of all. But there are two important Gelugpa orgs operating in the western world at this moment, who have quite diferent attitudes on the topic. One of them is the FPMT of Lama Yeshe, the other is the New Kadampa Tradition of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. I believe the key to this kind of sense of superiority, is represented in Dorje Shugden. His puja is identical to the one of Je Tsongkhapa except for the name and some mantra stuff. Worshippers of this demon (ex-Dharma protector) bethink themselves to be totally superior after awhile, one of the reasons why HH Dalai Lama did away with the bugger; he is no longer propitiated by him. Devotees of Shugden are heavily involving themselves in slacking off other traditions. Once worked a puja with a few Dorje Shugden monks, who started talking about the inferiority of other Buddhist traditions compared with theirs, how all other Buddhist traditions are 'degenerated' and theirs is like the proverbial diamond. They actually compared the Dalai Lama with Hitler in the middle of the ritual (heh.. during the consumption of some horrid butter-tea, supposedly a 'bodhicitta break'). Sounded pretty samsaric to me. They also told me I should abandon my black magickal syncretic practices (consisting of the study of other Mahayana traditions, kosher Kabbalah and Hermeticism), so I wished them all the best with their tradition. It's sad.. these thoughts are being transmitted and the methods of guru yoga really let these thoughts take root in the mental continuum of followers of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso; truly deep imprints of fanaticism. The're not allowed to study anything outside of the scope of their little corner and think that's the only thing around. This results in people like our Tsering guy, making stupid one-sidede remarks like that. It's sad and compassion should be shown towards him, step by step discussing the tradition and taditional refutations of Je Tsongkhapa. There actually are rituals to purify oneself from Shugden. Definitely. Tried to touch on that in the mailing before. He's not aware how different canon-lineages of older texts are present in all traditions, encompassing the whole of the Mahayana; and how only the modes of interpretation differ amongst schools. But in the Gelugpa practice, this is certainly a possibly valid conclusion; trusting the teachers he does, this is a possible outcome for the weak-minded. Certainly the yoga tantra can be considered the method as cause for enlightenment and the Madhyamika prasangika the formulation of this enlightenment taking place, the 'result'. "Naropa's six yoga's", the most important metastructure for most of the annutara yoga-tantras, is applied by both Gelugpa and Nyingma (+Kagyutpa) schools. The philosophies backing up the practice have differences, though the final results are quite identical. The web of lineages travelling through various schools and sects is quite complicated, but not impossible to trace. But the tantric methodology some fanatic gelugs claim for themselves, are actually shared by other traditions. (followers stay unaware of that, most of the times) Yes. based on the prajna paramita, acknowledged by all schools, including yogacara (Cittamatrin). I don't think the prasangika upholds that view stronger, instead it focuses on the outcome, where other schools focus on the process of getting there. Both are valid. <****To this I would like to add the following answer by "Sonam Tesring" What is all this visualization nonsense? "Everyone knows" all western magic is done thru pacts with demons. It is "common knowledge" that western Hermeticists sell their souls to Satan, not practice visualization. > Earlier on he went all the way on a discourse about his Vajrayanic sublimity in Je Tsongkhapa, then he all of a sudden rejects visualisation practice, which forms quite a large chunk of the practices in both generation and completion stages of highest yoga tantra. It's for Lam Rim (Sutra, Mahayana) people to say a thing like that, not for Vajrayana practitioners. Yes.. the Mahayana isn't about all sentient beings at all, not about universal brotherhood. We shouldn't try to understand others, but hide away in our little corner and declare our superiority while being closed for others. That sounds like a truly compassionate bodhisattva grasping the very essence of the Buddha's teachings :-) Cute :-) He would probably be really shocked about connections between the masonic third degree and Bardo Thodol, but then again his lineage probably isn't aware of this book, so it must be inferior and not at all Buddhist :-) < ***My we take this opportunity to apologize to any Tibetans, and also to the sincere Hindu Tantric practitioners (including Tzimon) who have been directly or indirectly offended by this phoney who calls himself "Sonam Tsering". Until xennu confirmed our suspicions, and the above diatribe removed any further doubt, we were willing to consider the possibility of his genuineness. Now there is no doubt; he is a total fraud.****> I don't think he's a fraud, just think he is heavily involved in a sectaric tunnel-reality. Maybe he should be asked about Je Tsongkhapa's arguments refuting variant interpretations of the prajna paramita, and if he would actually be able to share some arguments. He should be able to discourse on that. <***Now, Jeroen-La, IMHO this "Sonam Tesring" is as phoney as a three dollar bill -- but even if we should discover that he is a real Tibetan monk of some sort, then -- in service to our Tibetan friends and teachers -- we should all agree never to recognize him as such. *****> One of the root downfalls of the bodhisattva vow, is the 'taking away saffron robes', even if the monk concerned has severely broken several vows. So I think we should acknowledge whatever status he presumes (always a good thought to build a very high throne for him) and assist him in avoiding negativity. Agape Jeroen
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