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To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org From: RIKB2@aol.com Subject: Re: Baphomet=Lion and the Serpent? Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:05:14 EDT 93! In a message dated 6/18/99 5:56:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Baphomet75@aol.com writes: > I have a question. In the Gnostic Mass, Baphomet is identified as > the Lion and the Serpent. Yet, in many Gnostic sects, the Lion-Serpent is > known as Yaldabaroth, the blind demiurge who thinks he is God...and demands > worship (often identified as YHWH in the Old Testament.)... Yaldabaroth > is typically not a favorable entity or worth praising in Gnosticism. Another name for the Lion-Serpent is Chnouph or Chnoubis in the Greek magical papyri. There are some branches of gnostic thought in which Ialdabaoth is not considered "evil." > So, first of all, how is Baphomet the 'lion and the serpent'? I think of Teth as the lion serpent because of its shape (serpent) and attribution (Leo). The "Lust" card depicts the conjoining of Babalon and the Beast, which produces the elixir in the cup. Baphomet -- the occult Baphomet of course -- is hermaphroditic because he is the result of male and female forces in combination, and so is the sacrament. I don't necessarily see Baphomet AS the lion-serpent, but I think they represent the same energy of the path of Teth, which has to do with the crystallization of the sacrament. And > > if it's a "Gnostic Mass" why wouldn't we instead be praising Sophia the > Goddess of Wisdom rather than her blind, authoritative, ignorant creation? Well...as Meretrix noted, Baphomet (spelled BPhVMTh), processed through the Athbash cipher yields Sophia (ShVPhIA)... The attribution to Ialdabaoth seems shaky to me -- I'm not accusing you of being wrong about it, but it seems likely to me to be a bit of over enthusiastic late sycretism on someone's part. I think the lion-serpent was probably in existence as an entity in its own right before the association with Ialdabaoth. Betz makes the claim that it's a conflation of the Egyptian creator god Khnum, the serpent Kneph, and a word for star in egyptian, kenem. It was probably some Greek gnostic who made the association with Ialdabaoth because of the "Khnum" element of the formula. Gnostic schools were so diverse in their beliefs and cosmologies that I find it hard to believe that the association between the two was in any way a universal one. In Budge's Amulets and Talismans, he says that Chnoubis was the Agathodaimon, or "good spirit" roughly equivalent to the HGA. One of his titles is Shemesh Olam, "sun of the universe" in Hebrew. He was considered a god of healing and the renewal of life (as many serpent gods are, hence the association with Asclepius and Hermes carrying the caduceus). He says that according to the ancient writer Hephaistion, Chnoubis was one of the decans of Cancer, and was placed in the heart of Leo (I'm not sure what Budge means by that--it would have to be Cancer or Leo, not both, so one must be a constellation and the other a zodiac sign, but I'm not sure which is which). The dual Lunar/Solar elements of that explanation are interesting to me, since I have always seen the "mark of the beast" as being placed at the intersection of the paths of Gimmel and Teth (I also see this as being the "place" on the tree where Liber Reguli is performed, but that's a whole other discourse)... Budge does not mention a connection with Ialdabaoth, which makes me again think that it was a sort of "fringe" interpretation. 93 93/93 RIKB ____________...oooOOO---thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org---OOOooo..._____________ To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe" to thelema93-l-request@hollyfeld.org To unsubscribe your@email.com send "unsubscribe your@email.com" To unsubscribe from the digest send to thelema93-l-digest-request@hollyfeld.org http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/elists/thelema93-l.phtml From thelema93-l-owner@www.hollyfeld.org Sat Jun 19 17:05:11 1999 Return-Path:Delivered-To: yronwode@prog-relay.sonic.net Received: (qmail 28856 invoked from network); 19 Jun 1999 17:05:09 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by buzz.sonic.net with SMTP; 19 Jun 1999 17:05:09 -0000 Received: from www.hollyfeld.org (209-67-233-180.bst0.flashcom.net [209.67.233.180]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26258 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:05:03 -0700 X-envelope-info: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27003 for thelema93-l-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:12:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: www.hollyfeld.org: majordom set sender to owner-thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f93.hotmail.com [209.185.131.156]) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA27000 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:12:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 27148 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 1999 17:00:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19990619170055.27147.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 136.152.60.44 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:00:54 PDT X-Originating-IP: [136.152.60.44] From: Sekhem-f-en Anpu To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org Subject: Baphomet=Sophia (one theory, anyway) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:00:54 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org Status: RO "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." >From: Baphomet75@aol.com In the Gnostic Mass, Baphomet is identified as the Lion and the Serpent. Yet, in many Gnostic sects, the Lion-Serpent is known as Yaldabaroth, the blind demiurge who thinks he is God...and demands worship (often identified as YHWH in the Old Testament.)...Yaldabaroth is typically not a favorable entity or worth praising in Gnosticism. So, first of all, how is Baphomet the 'lion and the serpent'? And if it's a "Gnostic Mass" why wouldn't we instead be praising Sophia the Goddess of Wisdom rather than her blind, authoritative, ignorant creation? Perhaps I have my facts wrong or are interpreting things wrong, I'd appreciate the corrections...< A couple of months ago I ran across an interesting theory on Baphomet. I found it while surfing for info on the Knights Templar. The theory I found was that Baphomet and Sophia may be one and the same thing. The theory is based on the Scroll of Atbash (something I am completely unfamiliar with). Apparently, the Hebrew letters for Baphomet can be cyphered using the Scroll of Atbash in a way that renders the Hebrew letters for Sophia. Interesting concept. For those interested they can check out this URL. http://intranet.ca/~magicworks/knights/atbash.html In fact, you may wish to go to http://intranet.ca/~magicworks/knights/ and check out all of their info on Baphomet. I don't know how accurate it is, but I found it intriguing none-the-less. "Love is the Law, love under will." "Arit-a mert-a tep-ta em-ma Ankh-iu." Sekhem-f en Anpu Magick Code: MTH/SX S* W--->---- N PEG/EC++++ Ds@/Dd@/Dr+>++ A++>+++ a+(++) C* G* QO++>+++ 666@* Y++++>-- _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ____________...oooOOO---thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org---OOOooo..._____________ To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe" to thelema93-l-request@hollyfeld.org To unsubscribe your@email.com send "unsubscribe your@email.com" To unsubscribe from the digest send to thelema93-l-digest-request@hollyfeld.org http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/elists/thelema93-l.phtml From thelema93-l-owner@www.hollyfeld.org Sun Jun 20 16:39:22 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: yronwode@prog-relay.sonic.net Received: (qmail 7651 invoked from network); 20 Jun 1999 16:39:21 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by buzz.sonic.net with SMTP; 20 Jun 1999 16:39:21 -0000 Received: from www.hollyfeld.org (209-67-233-180.bst0.flashcom.net [209.67.233.180]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08637 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:39:21 -0700 X-envelope-info: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04775 for thelema93-l-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:46:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: www.hollyfeld.org: majordom set sender to owner-thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org using -f Received: from web1.rocketmail.com (web1.rocketmail.com [205.180.57.67]) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA04772 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:46:54 -0400 Message-ID: <19990620161804.11698.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Received: from [206.103.60.101] by web1; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:18:04 PDT Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:18:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Re: Baphomet=Lion and the Serpent? To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org Status: RO 93 ---Baphomet75@aol.com wrote: > I have a question. In the Gnostic Mass, Baphomet is identified as > the Lion and the Serpent. (snip) > So, first of all, how is Baphomet the 'lion and the serpent'? And > if it's a "Gnostic Mass" why wouldn't we instead be praising Sophia the > Goddess of Wisdom rather than her blind, authoritative, ignorant creation? I think it's pretty obvious that Crowley/EGC/OTO has very little to do with historical gnosticism. As to Crowley's ideas on the Lion and Serpent, and Baphomet, I think he addresses both in MTP. 93 Fr. DOubt-Goat === The Homepages of the Doubt-Goat The Darsan Trio Sekhet Maat Oasis, O.T.O. Lion & Serpent http://www.easystreet.com/~twilliam _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ____________...oooOOO---thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org---OOOooo..._____________ To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe" to thelema93-l-request@hollyfeld.org To unsubscribe your@email.com send "unsubscribe your@email.com" To unsubscribe from the digest send to thelema93-l-digest-request@hollyfeld.org http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/elists/thelema93-l.phtml
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