THE |
|
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects. |
To: alt.religion.voodoo,alt.religion.orisha From: "tribble"Subject: Re: Basic Questions (Terminology; was Clearing the ...) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:13:38 -0600 "catherine yronwode" wrote in message news:3C219CF7.EDA@luckymojo.com... > Mambo Racine Sans Bout wrote: > > > > writes a series of good questions: > > > > >what does "to do 'rekouche'" mean? > > > > Okay, here we go - a person can be initiated at one of three ranks, > > from lowest to highest they are hounsi kanzo (also called kanzo > > senp, simple kanzo), sur point (on the point, or patronage, of a > > particular lwa) and asogwe. > > I have always wondered how the initiator determines which rank to give > -- must the candidate go through all three ranks in sequence, as with > degrees in Freemasonry, or is a divination done to determine one's > entry-position, or...?? The following is only "my opinion". LOL. This differs from house to house. In some places you must go through an entire sequence of services and initiations to get to asogwe. You may have to take a Lave Tet first and then perform as a member of the house, attend service, etc for a period of time before you are allowed to initiate at hounsi kanzo. Then you must train with your "parent(s)" until they feel you are ready for the next rank. Some may feel that this is done to squeeze money out of people. The mambo/oungan gets paid for each service/rank - although usually not the entire fee for each rank - just the difference. Others feel it is the wiser way. There are times when people attain asogwe on their first initiation. From the folks I know who have done so - they are priests(esses) in other ATRs or have been in the Vodou a long time serving the Spirits. You might also hear some wonderful stories from Haitians who were told by the Spirits that they must take the asson. The person fights these demands (sometimes for years) only to suffer in their "real life". They will usually go through a series of personal tests/trials and may have a hard time trying to get the money for the initiation or even to buy the plane ticket to Haiti. Usually a miracle occurs and the money is provided by the Spirit. This scenario is one you will find in the book Mama Lola. I have also heard this from a handful of other Mambos. This is another instance where one might immediately take the asson. > > The word "kouche" means "to lie down", and refers to the fact > > that initiates spend a period of time lying down in seclusion. > > To "kouche" therefore means to undergo initiation in Vodou. > > To "rekouche" would be to repeat one's initiation at the same > > rank. > > > > When a person is initiated at the rank of asogwe, they are granted > > ownership of the asson, which is a sacred rattle emblematic of > > priesthood, used to invoke lwa and direct Vodou ceremonies. So > > "to take the asson" is synonymous with "to be initiated at the rank > > of asogwe". > > > > A person who is sur point is permitted to use the asson. I gave > > Michele initiation at the rank of sur point, which means I also > > carefully taught her the ceremonial gestures of the asson. > > I sense a difference between "taking the asson" and "being permitted to > use the asson" -- is that the case? She has her own asson and shakes it like nobody's bidness. Maybe I will get her a "Property of Mambo Michele" placard for it this holiday season. That would eliminate all confusion, eh? She can also bust a mean move on the dance floor. When working her way across a crowded peristyle to salute the drums, one can hear her say "Don't hate me because I'm a Mambo" through sheer body language. It's awesome! Okay back to all seriousness. > > An initiate swears to go 41 days from the end of the initiation > > without eating certain things and without having sex. Michele broke > > her vows the night she came out of the djevo, and I stumbled across > > that event quite by accident. I called two witnesses, male and > > female, who saw the same thing. Michele and her partner were > > requested to surrender their kolye, or sacred necklace, which an > > initiate wears for those 41 days. They refused, and I advised the > > Haitians assisting not to take them by force, as would definitely > > have been done to a Haitian initiate. The man involved came back > > and repeated his ceremonies, Michele did not. > > And i take it that Michele does not dispute this account of events. Who knows? The whole issue is one of ethics. As far as I am concerned posting such things on a public forum even IF true is like a priest revealing things told in a confession. You pay money for a spiritual service and then you have the details of such services announced to the public. I give you a reading and blab everything I discover on the net. I wash your head and then tell all your problems to every person I encounter. That's shady. > > >what is "kwakwa"? how can one have it, how does one get it? what > > >does it take to get rid of it, if that is preferable? why would > > >this be important as regards Mambo Racine's kanzo? I am not in fact questioning Racine's rank in the Vodou. However, using hearsay and her logic one could make such bold accusations on the net. In fact, I think they have been made numerous times. The Vodou is not rocket science. It's a spiritual journey and every one who is in the religion serving the Spirits has a valid voice from the unitiated to the oldest Mambo on earth. All of this serves nothing but one's ego. Why does it matter? Most know that in the larger scheme of things it is really not important that people recognize or accept one's asson. Only the Spirits recognition is important. You may have an asson and no Spirits - they have abandoned you because of your actions. You may have no asson and PLENTY of Spirits. You serve them well and they serve you well. So why the big deal? When Racine went from statements of "I think" and "I feel" to making definitive statements of supposed fact, I had to speak up. We all know that Aboudja is not the most popular person with some folks on this newsgroup. He is/seems perfectly okay with that. However, Michele has never been a source of antagonism here. Racine chooses to publicly discredit her because of her associations with Aboudja. I suppose Aboudja is in some way fortunate (!?!!) because Racine at least recognizes he has an asson - the one she gave him. But knowing Racine's history we can look forward to her responding "Michele is not a Mambo, etc. etc.", after any post signed Mambo Michele. That's wrong. The woman passed the djevo twice. She has been tested enough. By the way, Mambo Michele does not care about this - I guess she is a bigger person than I am. It very much bothers me. Sorry to all. While even discussing Vodou on the Internet is a debatable question, Mambo Michele brings a lot of rational perspective to many, many discussions. Not only does she suffer ( imo only - not hers) , but we all suffer by losing her voice to this madness. Plus, she is my friend ;) H. Aboudja: Well, he will tend to his own business very well. LOL! Blessings, Tribble -- Interested in Haitian Vodou or American Voodoo? Please ask your News provider to add alt.religion.voodoo to their servers! -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! ==-----
The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org. |
Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site. |
The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories, each dealing with a different branch of religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge. Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit: |
|
interdisciplinary:
geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc. |
SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):
OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST
Southern
Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo,
including slave narratives & interviews
|