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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.orisha,alt.satanism From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (dreadcomber) Subject: The Matamoros Affair (was Palo Mayombe: The 'Dark Side' of Santeria?...) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:54:59 GMT 50000810 Vom [reconstructed from a variety of parts in this thread] E. C. Ballard: >>> ...the matamoros affair.... >>> Adolfo Constanzo claimed many things, but the fact remains that he >>> borrowed ideas from a number of traditions and perverted them to his >>> own murderous ends. He was neither practicing anything approaching >>> palo nor was he a validly initiated palero. richard sprigg: >> The information gathered by the FBI suggests otherwise. >> His initiator was accepted as a bona-fide palero by the >> Cuban community. is this disputed? it seems to be one of the more important aspects of the data discussed. >> That these should indulge in post-hoc damage control is understandable, >> though it might be more credible had they done so while Adolfo was still >> alive. agreed. hindsight is wonderful, but does not replace responsibility. >>> He was simply a madman and a criminal. >> >> Which is an easy way to sidestep the issue. The vastly amusing part >> of the whole affair was that the media circus branded him as a >> Satanist, which he certainly was not. depends on how you define the term ("satanist"). some Christians will label anything which contains elements of their satanism-egregore (i.e. worship of non-Christian god or spirit, animal sacrifice, nonChristian symbolism and iconography, ritual violence) as "satanism" regardless of the cultural components or context from which it derives. African-diaspora religious have at times taken up Christian iconography for the purpose of survival in reaction to precisely this kind of demonization. solitary religious sociopaths are prone to eclectic combination, sociopaths within religious traditions tend to have unusual 'visions' or cosmological 'discoveries' which serve as their justification for their violence, by my (limited) assessment. as long as Satanism has its "independents" then should an individual identify as such it becomes difficult to know more than whether someone belongs to a Satanist organization and what kinds of activities they engaged. whether the Matamoros killings were "satanic" seems to depend upon who is doing the reporting. I see this kind of thing in the media all the time (even in court records): ambiguous characterizations, oblique references to the egregore mentioned above, etc. with regard to Matamoros I have a couple of sources. one of them is my wife (sri catyananda, catherine yronwode), who says that she does not remember Satanism being part of the newspaper accounts when she was researching the matter for the True Crime Trading Cards that she was editing and publishing. instead her memory is that the focus was on Santeria and what Santerians said about Palo. my other source is Gary Provost and his "Across the Border: The True Story of the Satanic Cult Killings in Matamoros, Mexico", published by Pocket (True Crime) Books in 1989. it is a competent criminological narrative drawing from interviews with law enforcement, academic figures, and family members associated with the case and newspaper accounts available at the time -- one major flaw in the book's content is his occasional references to Migene Gozalez-Wippler's book on Santeria as a reference source, which may be excusable based on the fact that hers was apparently one of the only commonly-available sources on the subject in English available at that time. Provost indicates in the title and first few pages that Satanism is ascribed some relation to the crimes, but later discusses only Santera and Palo Mayombe. thus his usage of 'Satanic' and 'Satanism' (page 11) seem merely to be sensationalistic. Provost quotes the following sources regarding the the religious elements surrounding the killings: ...the rites appeared to be some imported Afro- Carribean tradition, something like Santeria, but not really Santeria, because that religion does not practice human sacrifice. More likely, what went on in secret over in Matamoros was part of Santeria's dark co-tradition of Palo Mayombe, and an abberrant form of it at that. Especially characteristic of Palo Mayombe was the evil cauldron, or nganga, that had been found. The nganga is the powerhouse of the mayombero, or Palo Mayombe priest. [testimony by Dr. Tony Zavaleta, Professor of Anthropology, Southmost Texas College; City Commissioner, Brownsville, Texas] ---------------------------------------------- "Across the Border", Provost, p. 17. ______________________________________________ this gives the indication, especially when combined with the testimony that Constanzo, the leader of the cult which perpetrated the killings, was sent by his mother at the age of 14 "to study Palo Mayombe under the tutelage of a mayombero" that he was a part of this community. [concerning Oggun, to whom Provost claims there is some evidence Constanzo was dedicated.] He eats dogs and is the patron of ironworkers. Before going to war, the Yorubas used to sacrifice to him a human victim or a black dog. [and] The mayombero waits until the moon is propitious, and then he goes to a cemetery with an assistant. Once there, he sprinkles rum in the form of a cross over a prechosen grave. The grave is opened, and the head, toes, the fingers, the ribs, and the tibias of the corpse are removed. These graves are chosen ahead of time, and the mayombero usually knows the identity of the cadaver, which is known as a kiyumba. They are usually recent graves, as the mayombero insists on having a head in which the brain is still present, however decayed. He believes that the brain of the kiyumba can think and thus 'act' better. The choice kiyumbas are those belonging to very violent persons, especially those of criminals and of the insane, for the purposes of the mayombery are generally to commit acts of death and destruction. The bodies of white persons are also greatly favored, as the mayombero believes that the brain of the white person is easier to influence than that of a black man and that it will follow instructions better. [Provost notes that an occult supply house in Pennsylvania which supplies human body parts, such that grave robbery need not be involved.] [Gozalez-Wippler from her book "Santeria: African Magic in Latin America", Crown, 1973.] -------------------------------------------------- Ibid., p. 114, 119-20. _______________________ any truth to these quotes? the latter appears related because ngangas ("cauldrons" for which Gonzalez-Wippler was describing a recipe) were found at the crime scene. Because Santeria does not address a specific moral code as in the Judeo-Christian tradition, it is frequently found in association with criminal activities. Drug dealers, for example, not infrequently have elaborate statues and other depictions of Santeria in their homes, and Ochosi (god of hunting and owner of traps) is propitiated and honored among some criminal and socially deviant groups to avoid incarceration or obtain release from jail. Hence, Santeria, while predominantly a white or neutral magic religion, does have a component of malevolent sorcery and is invoked by criminal elements. This should not be construed, however, to suggest that Santeria promotes malevolent or criminal activities, but that it may simply be used by such persons to promote their already established intentions. [and] Because of the acculturative and syncretic processes which took place over several centuries, the rituals and myths of Palo Mayombe are frequently associated with the practitioners of Santeria. Indeed, many santeros claim they have also been "Rayado en Palo" {initiated into the Palo Mayombe cult}. Religious paraphernalia typical of Santeria and those characteristic of Palo Mayombe may be found in the same home, but in different locatinos of the residence. Despite the historical and symbolic associations with Santeria, Palo Mayombe has certain distinguishing features. Most importantly, the myths and rituals of Palo Mayombe are centered about the spirit of the dead (kiyumba). In most instances, the magic is used to inflict misfortune (insanity, divorce, etc.) or death upon an enemy or the enemy of a client. [and] In contrast to Santeria, which is predominantly used for good or neutral purposes, Palo Mayombe is primarily oriented towards malevolent sorcery. While many depictions and symbols in Palo Mayombe appear identical to Santeria, devotion to *brujeria*, the use of human remains, and other features distinguish this cult from other African- Caribbean religions. [from the "Journal of the Florida Medical Association", August, 1983), authors Charles Wetli, deputy chief medical examiner for Dade County and professor of pathology at the University of Miami and Rafael Martinez, administrative officer of the Dade-Miami Criminal Justice Council; Provost claims that "both men are nationally recognized experts on Afro-Caribbean religions. (After the bodies were found in Matamoros, Texas law enforcement agencies considered the credentials of thirty experts around the country. Martinez was the man they chose to help them with their investigation.)"] ------------------------------------------------------ Ibid., pp. 110-1, 115-6. _____________________________ any reason to discredit these sources? It's not correct to say that Palo Mayombe is the dark side of Santeria. Santeria has a dark side if the santero chooses, and it is perceived to be just as powerful as Palo. All African religions can be used for good or evil. Most of the paleros are good, law-abiding people. This Constanzo thing takes place thousands of miles away from Miami. There are over five thousand paleros in Miami, and they have never seen anything like this. Certainly some paleros are linked with drugs or illegal activity, if you are living on the margin, you are going to seek protection more than anybody else, and you can't go to a Catholic church to pray for protection tonight for a shipload of cocaine. You can't go to the priest and tell him that I am in love with my best friend's wife and I want to see how I can get her over to my place. But that doesn't mean that all paleros are evil. How come with five thousand paleros in Miami, this man Constanzo couldn't even get a following in Miami? [and] Constanzo was a sociopath and he would have murdered people even if he was a Methodist. [Terasita Pedraza, a professor of sociology and anthropology at Florida International University, and an expert on Santeria and Palo Mayombe] --------------------------------------------------- Ibid., 117-8, 120-1. ______________________ this seems to make a case for the possibility of someone turning toward crime at least within Santeria and Palo Mayombe religious traditions. whether physical violence to humans might once have been involved in Afro- Caribbean magic seems very unusual at least, and, if the sources above indicating it are incorrect (e.g. Gonzalez- Wippler), possibly fictitious. >> He may well have used bits and pieces of other traditions, >> but he was certainly also using Palo methods extensively. this appears to be the case, from Provost's sources, moreso than that what Eoghan has claimed below. eballard@sas.upenn.edu (E. C. Ballard): > ...the man heard about various religions and borrowed > scraps from many and then added his own mad murderous part. this seems extreme, though I would agree with Eoghan when he characterizes it as > ...regrettable because it doesn't really have anything to > do with the normal practice of any religion. Richard's point was NOT that it had something to do with "normal" practice of religion (one might say the same of any sociopath who *is* a participant within an extant religious tradition who takes it to violence -- this was Professor Pedraza's point about Methodism). his point was that Constanzo appears to have been initiated by a mayombero or someone who posed as such. Constanzo's mother claimed to be a santero and provided Constanzo with an initiation into Santeria, but there was no evidence that she went through the training. unless we were able to identify by whom Constanzo was trained in Palo (or clearly able to falsify the story about the training), other indicators are that he was closer than just some syncretic poser. > A madman can claim anything for his basis. Like Rasputan > however, he has only his madness to blame. we're not talking about blame here. we're talking about actually identifying the individual's relation to the religious culture in question. when a Satanist commits a murder nobody is helped by attempting to distance the individual from Satanism. it is far better to identify how what they did matches up with the religion of which they are part and identify the normal practices which constitute the standard from which they were an anomaly. > In this, as everyone other than the most sensationalist > "journalists" have already made clear, this man was not > a legitimate follower or practitioner of any religion. would training have made him "legitimate"? otherwise, what disqualifies one who has been trained as a palero from being considered "a legitimate follower" of either Santeria or of Palo Mayombe? I'm not asking in order to pick on anyone here, I'm trying to get a better sense of what criteria are used to "authorize" practitioners and see why you are making the claims that you are. thanks. > Bottom line, Palo and Ocha are like any other responsible > modern religion in condemning murder and abuse. this much appears to be very true, and I hope that anyone contributing to the thread understands it. amongst the variety of religions, however, there do appear to be differing notions of what "abuse" includes. it is quite clear that physical violence is considered 'abuse' within both these traditions. the line does appear to be more ambiguous when it comes to other illegal activities (such as the purchase or sale of controlled substances). if you dispute this I'd like to know why and on what basis the sources presented by Provost are found wanting. thanks. dreadcomber -- FREE HOODOO CATALOGUE! send street address to: catalogue@luckymojo.com mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html ; mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <39948A67.6EED@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism Followup-To: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism Subject: Re: The Matamoros Affair (was Palo Mayombe: The 'Dark Side' of Santeria?...) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 363 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 23:15:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.136.186 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 966035709 209.204.136.186 (Fri, 11 Aug 2000 16:15:09 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 16:15:09 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:24856 alt.satanism:153633 E. C. Ballard wrote: > First of all, no serious student of academic or practical interest in > either Ocha or Palo will say anything flattering about Wippler, at > least not once the half hour laughter fest is over. Well said, and agreed. > > Secondly, Palo is not evil nor dark. Agreed, in principle. > That particular discourse came out of > a combination of the political motives of certain Yoruban derived > religious leaders who wished to level the playing field by accusing > the Congo derived religious groups of sorcery while maintaining that > they were strictly devotional practitioners Emphatically agreed! > and the Webberian notions of scholars > such as Bastide who believed so firm a line could be drawn between > magical practices and religion that a practitioner of one could not > be a participant in the other. This is a new argument to me, but i consider it one that is equally applied to other religions (e.g. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism)and can be easily dismissed by examining the historical record. > Neither of these views are accurate or are > viewed seriously by much of anyone other than the writers for the > National Enquirer. Here i think you are going overborad, Eoghan. Gary Provost is hardly a writer for the National Enquirer. His book on the Matamoros killings was admittedly compiled from an outsider's point of view, but he is a respectable jouranilst and he consulted witnesses, survivors, government prosecutors, anthropologists, and published sources -- and cited them adequately throughout his book. His standards are certainly above those of a tabloid journalist. > As for what the "Cuban" community thought about the man purported to > have initiated him, all of this was in Mexico. mexico is not Cuba and > my experience has been that what passes for reputable Palo in places > like Mexico City and even California are so mixed with Mexican > traditions as to not be in any realistic way traditional Palo. Okay, your paragraph above indicates that you are actually less familiar with the Matamoros case than i had thought. To bring you up to speed -- Adolfo Constanzo, the "padrino" of this group of Paleros, was not a Mexican at all. He did not receive initiations in Santeria or Palo in Mexico City or California. He was from Miami, where his Cuban-born mother, Aurora COnstanzo, was a practicing Santeria in the Miami Cuban community (and had a minor criminal history of her own). The only reason Constanzo was in Mexico was that his business (drug smuggling) took him there. For the most part, his followers were Mexicans and American Latinos who were part of his drug-smuggling operation and he initiated them into Palo Mayombe. However, for the benefit of his girlfriend, who claimed to be too sensitive to even witness the sacrifice of roosters, he also practiced a modified form of Santeria Cristiana. > Besides, who was the so quoted "Cuban community"? There are plenty of > Cubans outside of Palo even in places like Habana who would be unable > to judge accurately whether someone were a validly initated palero or > not. I understand what you are saying, but, in fact, this is a point that one of Provost's informants, Terasita Pedraza, the professor of sociology and anthropology, made preceisely! Let me re-insert that quotation, if i may -- and now, knowing that Constanzo was the Spanish-speaking son of a Cuban-born Santero, Aurora Constanzo, and that he was also was said to have been initiated in Palo in Miami, the professor's references to "Miami" will make much more sense to you, i think: It's not correct to say that Palo Mayombe is the dark side of Santeria. Santeria has a dark side if the santero chooses, and it is perceived to be just as powerful as Palo. All African religions can be used for good or evil. Most of the paleros are good, law-abiding people. This Constanzo thing takes place thousands of miles away from Miami. There are over five thousand paleros in Miami, and they have never seen anything like this. Certainly some paleros are linked with drugs or illegal activity, if you are living on the margin, you are going to seek protection more than anybody else, and you can't go to a Catholic church to pray for protection tonight for a shipload of cocaine. You can't go to the priest and tell him that I am in love with my best friend's wife and I want to see how I can get her over to my place. But that doesn't mean that all paleros are evil. How come with five thousand paleros in Miami, this man Constanzo couldn't even get a following in Miami? [and] Constanzo was a sociopath and he would have murdered people even if he was a Methodist. [Terasita Pedraza, a professor of sociology and anthropology at Florida International University, and an expert on Santeria and Palo Mayombe] --------------------------------------------------- Ibid., 117-8, 120-1. ______________________ Now do you see her point? She was saying that although Constanzo was indeed a Palero from Miami, he was not respected enough in the large Miami-Cuban palero community to gain a following there, and, as a sociopath, he might just as well have been a Methodist for all the validity of a link between his religion and his actions. This, to me, seems a far more effective defense of Palo than to claim that Constanzo got some weird ideas about Palo in Mexico or California or that he learned about Palo from dabbling in books. By the way, Constanzo retained some connection to the Santeria religion practiced by his mother after adopting Palo -- and this is brought forward in an interview with his Mexican-born assistant Sara Aldrete, who at the time of the killings was an American college student at Texas Southmost University. (I use the term "assistant" advisedly -- Constanzo, who was gay, mainly used her for drug-smuggling across the Texas-Mexico border.) A. I don't believe in any of that [human sacrifice]. I am in the religion Santeria Cristiana [Christian Santeria]. Adolfo initiated me last year. I was still learning about it and he was showing me all these things, and he gave me some saints that I have in my house, Saint Francis, Saint Barbara, and the Virgin of Charity, and the Holy Child, and some others. I really am very confused about all this. The other part of my religion is Palo Mayombe. I didn't love Aldolfo, but I followed him. I feel terrible about all that has happened. ... People don't know that I am a vegetarian, that I am opposed to killing animals. They don't know that I belonged to the animal defense league, that the one thing I could never accept about the Santeria Cristiana is that you are supposed to sacrifice roosters. Q. How did you learn about Santeria Cristiana? A. Alfonso taught me. [She calls Adolfo "Alfonso."] And I was fascinated by it. It is a religion that does not interfere with your being a Catholic, only the difference is that you can worship the saints in your home. Build your own altar. You leave little bits of fruits for offerings, but Alfonso also said you had to sacrifice a rooster, and I would not go along wih that." Police-supervised press interview with Sara Aldrete, May 7, 1989. --------------------------------------------------- Ibid., 227-229. ______________________ I find it intriguing that even while distncing herself from animal sacrifice, Aldrete frankly told interviewers that her "other religion" (besides Catholicism and Santeria Cristiana") was Palo Mayombe. > Lastly, Palo is not Yoruba or "santerÃa" I think Provost deals adequately with this, stating it much as you did, and also quoting Professor Teresita Pedraza as noted above ("It's not correct to say that Palo Mayombe is the dark side of Santeria") and Charles Wetli, deputy chief medical examiner for Dade County and professor of pathology at the University of Miami and Rafael Martinez, administrative officer of the Dade-Miami Criminal Justice Council ("Despite the historical and symbolic associations with Santeria, Palo Mayombe has certain distinguishing features"). Also, to be fair, these events took place in 1989 -- and to this date no book on Palo exists in English, as you well know. > and although Paleros will use > the names of Orichas such as Ogun or Chango as referents, especially > for outsiders who are not familiar with the Congo traditions, Ogun is > a Yoruba deity or Oricha. He is sometimes equated with Sarabanda, a > Congo Enkise or deity, but they are not the same. Provost also notes, in a section of the book not quoted earlier, that Constanzo was devoted to Zarabanda, and he also quotes a Santerian source who then identifies Zarabanda losely with Ogun. > Neither Palo nor Santeria sacrifice humans at any time. That is pure > rubbish. Is it HISTORICALLY rubbish? Apparently Constanzo believed that the spirits of the dead would work more assiduously in his favour if he killed them personally, and he seemed to believe -- rightly or wrongly -- that human sacrfice had historical precedents in Palo. He particularly offered Palo to people with troubled pasts as a form of powerful religious protection. Interviews with other members of his group indicate that he performed a cutting ceremony on them as part of the initiation and that their reason for joining was FAITH-based, not a matter of thrill-seeking: For instance, Serafin Hernandez Garcia, a 20 year old Texas-born American citizen who led a double life as a college student at Texas Southmost University, where he was studying to be a police officer, and as a member of a family that earned its income from farming marijuana in Mexico and transporting it to the Unoited States. When Serafino's grandfather Saul, the head of the family, was murdered, family tensions escalated to the point that Serafin joined the Constanzo drug-smuggling operation. He believed that the Palo rrituals Constanzo performed on his behalf would make him both invisible to the police and, should they see him, render him invulnerable to their bullets. (Ibid. 59-69) Constanzo's rituals of protection took the form of Palo initiations, as evidenced by an excerpt from an interview with the Mexican gang-member Alvaro de Leon, known as El Duby: Q. Why did you join the sect? A. Because I had a problem in Matamoros. I had killed a person there, and in the ritual I met some of the people who could help me. Q. How did it happen? A. Well, we went into this little temple, a little house [a large farm shed -- cat], and we stood around and we saw the padrino place a body in a cauldron. Q. Why was that done? A. Because Adolfo said it would go better for us in the future. He said that we would receive protection. [...] Q. How were you initiated? A. I joined and got this blessing so I would have better protection and they marked me... --------------------------------------------------- Police-supervised press interview with El Duby, May 7, 1989. --------------------------------------------------- Ibid., 227-229. ______________________ Maria del Rocio Cuevas Guerra, a 43 years old native of Mexico who practiced brujeria, said, "I was having a run of bad luck, so I went to him. He made some marks on my backs and killed some chickens." (Ibid. 225) In addition, an AP/Wide World photo in t==Provost's book shows a police commandant exposing the cut-marks on Elio Herndandez's shoulder, "made by Adolfo Constanzo." Elio Hernandez, the uncle or Serafin Hernandez Garcia, was 23 years old, an American citizen born in Brownsville, Texas, and co-owner of the ranch in Matamoros where the killings took place. He was also the childhood friend and former lover of Sara Aldrete. --------------------------------------------------- Regarding the markings: Police also found Constanzo's diary, wherein he ranked the members of his cult. He was the "padrino" (godfather). [Omar Francisco] Orea was "palero mayor" (greatest or main palero, or follower of Palo Mayombe). Others were simply "palero." Some were "rayado" (marked with an arrow on their body) or "no rayado." --------------------------------------------------- Ibid., 210. ______________________ The first gang members arrested referred to Constanzo both as "El Padrino" and as "tata nkisis." > I can call myself a Buddhist, > but frankly having a poster I bought at a head shop and burning > Japanese incense isn't going to make me one. Now, Eoghan, i know you are angry about this topic, but take a look at the facts. Constanzo did not buy a book by Whippler that called Palo "the dark side of Santeria" and then set about killing people. He was offering a faith-based magical form of protection, mostly to Mexicans and Mexican-Americans who were ignorant of Palo, who called him "The Cuban" to distinguish him from themselves, and who believed that he could help them. As far as the testimony of gang members went, they did not perform the killings themselves and they certainly did not engage in alleged "satanic" activities such as drinking blood or eating flesh -- in each case El Padrino performed the ritual murder, the requisite body parts were taken from the victim and placed in the nganga, and the rest of the body was buried. > The so-called experts in this case > could not have read their way through any serious study of these > traditions let alone have met any real practitioners. The continued > discussion of matamoras serves only the purposes of those who wish to > discredit African derived religions on any pretext they can find. > Anyone who knows even the simplest amount about the living tradition > will not take it seriously in that context. On the contrary, i believe that the Matamoros case served to give many Santeros a reason to distinguish their religion from media-fueled ideas of "satanism" and that if Paleros were equally savvy and less defensive they could admit that, yes, Constanzo was a sociopathic cult-leader -- but it just so happened that he was also a Palero. In this case, protesting "too much" makes the defenders of Palo seem a bit dishonest. Claims that Constanzo was ignorant of Palo or that he learned it in Mexico, or that he got it from books do not serve the purpose of isolating him from main-stream Palo Mayombe because they can be so easily disputed. > It does deserve to be taken seriously as both a tragic event and as a > stinging indictment of institutionalized ignorance and outright racism > - both against hispanics and people of African origins. That statement i cannot agree with, Eoghan. The police and prosecutors in this case WERE Hispanics, as you ought to know, and although they went to great lengths to distance "the Cuban" and his religion from their own local form of folk-magical religion, curandismo, they did not make any racist remarks that i have seen. Charges of "satanism" and "voodoo" made as the case first broke in the United States were early dispersed, as were charges that the rituals, occuring as they did in Mexico, were a form of "Aztec human sacrifice." Provost's book deals with all of these media mis-statements and presents a fairly balanced case for the fact that Constanzo was to Palo what Jim Jones (of the Jonestown massacre) was to Christianity. Finally, in reading Provost's account of the Matamoros murders, what stuck in my mind most strongly was not the fact that a renegade Cuan-American Palero had ritually killed a series of Mexicans and Americans in order to provide protection for members of his smuggling operation -- it was that Juan Benitez, the commandant of the Matamors branch of the Federal Judicial Police and the officer who arrested most of the gang members, personally hired a curandero to ritually cleanse the crime scene shortly after the bodies were removed. This the curandero and his assistent did by performing traditional limpias, consulting with a white dove in a box, and then standing by as a group of devout curandismo-believing Federales burned the Palo nganga shed and all its evidence to the ground before the trial started -- the whole ritual witnessed by Tony Zavaleta, the anthropology professor from Texas Southmost University. cat yronwode Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html No personal e-mail, please; just catch me in usenet; i read it daily. Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html Send e-mail with your street address to catalogue@luckymojo.com and receive our free 32 page catalogue of hoodoo supplies and amulets Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3995FFD1.492F@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: The Matamoros Affair (was Palo Mayombe: The 'Dark Side' of Santeria?...) References: <3981A062.C5754423@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <39823CBC.5E27@luckymojo.com> <39844331.E58C20E@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <8m843a$k6r@bolt.sonic.net> <39879EFB.248C@sympatico.ca> <398B876D.58A6@sympatico.ca> <8mv8du$5m8@bolt.sonic.net> <2ySXZFAsB0k5IwBK@kiblah.demon.co.uk> <399369AB.35E9@luckymojo.com> <39948562.186C@luckymojo.com> <8n2lmm$18m$1@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 124 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 01:48:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.136.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 966131299 209.204.136.66 (Sat, 12 Aug 2000 18:48:19 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 18:48:19 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7225 alt.magick.tyagi:24860 E. C. Ballard wrote: > > Cat, I was responding not to the larger case but the particular > comments. The quote you introduced is quite far from that of the > earlier piece I was commenting on. The sociologist you mention > (Pedraza) is from Miami, Zavaleta is the one who refers to Palo as > the evil side of santeria and specifically mentions the "evil nganga". Yes, Professor Tony Zavaleta's specialty is Tex-Mex curandismo, which is rather on the "white light" or "spiritual" side of folk-magical practices, as you probably know. He is also the one who actually attended the ritual cleansing of the crime scene when the investigating officer hired a curandero to perform limpias there and then burned the site to the ground. Obviously Zavaleta is not informed well about Palo, and he takes a negative attitude towrd it. Remember, though, on his behalf -- these were HIS OWN STUDENTS who were bign killed and participating in the killings. He was a littlwe too close for comfort to take an objective viewpoint, i think. > As for my remarks about Mexican Palo, the > comments in the Matamoros case support my point. This man would > not have been doing what he did in the Cuban community, just as > Pedraza remarked. Also, I was trying to point out exactly what Pedraza > did when he remarked that the man would have been a killer even if he > was a Methodist. I think, then, that yoiu did not go far enough -- because it is obvious from the interviews that the Mexicans and Mexican-Americans involved in Constanzo's version of Palo had NOTHING to compare it with. It was entirely outside their experience. They revered him because he was wealthy, a successful smuggler, and he could put the fix in for them -- and when he told them his powers came from a "Cuban" religion they'd never heard of, they joined up. > Costanzo was from Miami, not Cuba. The fact that his mother was Cuban > born does not make him (or her for that matter) automatically > authentic. In any case, the issue is less what his origins were than > what he was doing. The sacrifice of human beings is not now nor ever > has been a part of Palo nor, with a nod to John, SanterÌa. Remember > that these two traditions are Cuban. In the context of this > discussion, what may have been practiced in the 19th century or > earlier in various parts of Africa really are comparing apples and > oranges. Yes, i understand your point that *Cuban* Santeria and Palo Mayombe do not engage human sacrifice. But, respectfully, i think that Constanzo was applying to what he believed was a "purer" or more "historically correct" form of Afican traditional religion. To put it in a neutral context, if that is permissible, he was a radical restorationist, > What is relevant is to emphasize that what he was doing automatically > would have placed him outside the pale for any serious palero or for > that matter follower of Ocha. A fact that often gets lost in these > kinds of discussions is that these are family traditions. They exist > and are practiced in a family context. They are not abberant "cults" > even if they seem exotic to the average American. I agree. I did not bother to quote much from Provost's book about Adolfo Constanzo's mother, Aurora Constanzo, but it seems that interviews with her neighbors and associates revealed that she was considered to be a "black witch" or practitioner of malevolent magic and was feared. She was, like her son, a petty criminal, as well. It is not known whether she ever practiced human sacrifice (she would not admit to such a thing, if she did, which is unlikely), but she did sacrifice goats, chickens and the like. > While I have read references to human sacrifice in 19th century > Nigeria and earlier - it is worth noting that the accounts come from > very dubious sources - the competition (ie missionaries). There is no > record of the Kongolese performing human sacrifice as a part of > regular religious ritual, even as far back as the 1400's when the > Portuguese first had contacts with them. > > The Kongolese often (although not always) killed in the context of > royal inaugurations and at funerals in the period prior to the 18th > century, but these were more public and royal events than they were > religious rituals of the sort you would find in any modern religious > context. But they did use body parts and graveyard dirt of the dead for magical purposes, correct? > Lastly Cat, forgive me - I do not mean to sound rude, but please read > my post a little more carefully. I was not refering to any officials > in the case when I made the remark about racism. I was refering > specifically (as I stated) to the intentions of those who continue to > bring up a very old and atypical court case to condemn an entire > tradition that Constanzo was clearly acting outside of. I realize in > rereading that my phrasing might have led to some confusion for which > I appologize. Saying "The so-called experts in this case" may have led > you to think I meant in the court case when I might have better > written "in this instance" refering to the quote of the Texas > Anthropolgist who from his remarks (posted by Dreadcomber), clearly > was not at all accurately informed about Palo, or chose to take a > very unprofessional stance in this context. I understand. But, in my defense, you did refer to > > > institutionalized ignorance and outright racism > > > - both against hispanics and people of African origins. -- which was what i was objecting to, since almost EVERYONE involved, including the American citizens, was Hispanic. (One victim and one US police officer involved in the case were Anglos.) > It's late and I'm tired, so I will sign out. I hope I have clarified > my comments and the position I was making. I don't believe that if you > reread my remarks, you will find that they are really at odds with the > facts of the case. Yes, you certainly have -- and i agree that your statement that Cuban Santeria and Cuban Palo Mayombe do not include human sacrifice was worth clarifying. No one is contesting that Constanzo was abberrent; i think we all agree on that! cat yronwode Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html No personal e-mail, please; just catch me in usenet; i read it daily. Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html Send e-mail with your street address to catalogue@luckymojo.com and receive our free 32 page catalogue of hoodoo supplies and amulets Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <39961737.1A75@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: Human Sacrifice References: <39960B34.2E4C@luckymojo.com> <3kol5.75823$oj6.946466@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 03:28:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.136.180 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 966137287 209.204.136.180 (Sat, 12 Aug 2000 20:28:07 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 20:28:07 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7230 alt.magick.tyagi:24864 OmiJuba wrote: > > Yes Cat, I think Ogun would be a perfect example unto whom a human > sacrifice would be made. Another Orisha would be Babalu-Aye. > No, I do not believe that ALL the Orisha would be on the relieving > end. Orishas like Ochun, Obatala and Yemaya no, but Olokun yes. > Orishas like Ogun, Chango, Oya, Ochosi and Eleggua, I can definitely > see them relishing in human sacrifice, because it is in their nature. > > This is my personal beliefs, I am not trying to "convert" anyone or > change your traditions so please, do not send me any hate mail, I had > enough over the last few days...LoL Thanks. You have confirmed what i was thinking, that Coinstanzo was not operating out of ignorance but by traditional paradigms. In this context, it is interesting to note that although Constanzo himself was dedicated to Ogun / Zarabanda, he gave Sara Aldrete, the soft-hearted Mexican-American college student who was a vegetarian and did not want to even sacrifice roosters, a set of Santeria Cristiana statues for her own use that related to other Orishas entirely, and helped her set up an altar to these Orishas. In her interview, Aldrete said that he had brought her statues of Santa Barbara (Chango), The Virgin of Charity / Caridad del Cobre (Oshun), The Holy Child / Nino Atocha (Ellegua), and Saint Francis. I don't know of any association between Saint Francis and an Orisha, but Aldrete belonged to the Animal Welfare League and so Constanzo probably selected Francis for her because of the saint's connection with the love of animals. (If there is an Orisha connected to Saint Francis, please let me know, okay?) cat yronwode Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html No personal e-mail, please; just catch me in usenet; i read it daily. Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html Send e-mail with your street address to catalogue@luckymojo.com and receive our free 32 page catalogue of hoodoo supplies and amulets This post copyright (c) 2000 catherine yronwode. All rights reserved. Path: typhoon.sonic.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "OmiJuba" Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi References: <39960B34.2E4C@luckymojo.com> <3kol5.75823$oj6.946466@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <39961737.1A75@luckymojo.com> Subject: Re: Human Sacrifice Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:50:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.7.159.188 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.tx.home.com 966217825 24.7.159.188 (Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:50:25 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:50:25 PDT Organization: @Home Network Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7255 alt.magick.tyagi:24900 Sometimes Eleggua is associated with St. Francis but I think the reason that maybe she had his statue was more because of St. Francis's relationship with the animals and maybe she thought that by worshiping and making offerings to St. Francis, he would intercede for her with the Santos and she would be given special permission to avoid sacrificing animals. I personally don't see how anyone who is opposed to animal sacrifice can be involved in Santeria. Afterall it's a necessary part of our worship. That's like being a Catholic but not believing in the Blessed Sacraments. It goes hand in hand. I believe that Coinstanzo was so involved with Ogun that he naturally offered a human out of devotion. This treads in the role of a sorcerer, not really a santero. Even though I am a santero, I would consider myself more of a sorcerer as well, because of the type of magickal arts I practice. The Orisha will tell you what they want to grant your needs and desires. Remember... Powerful medicine takes powerful ingredients... -OmiJuba Please come join us in the discussion of Santeria, Vodoun, Palo Mayombe, Candomble and the many other traditions of the Caribbean dispora. Follow this link to the "Caribbean Magic" list. http://www.egroups.com/group/CaribbeanMagic Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <39977AF2.5F96@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: Human Sacrifice References: <8n534i$mkf$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <20000813021928.15744.00000805@ng-cj1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 168 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 04:45:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.142.133 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 966228354 209.204.142.133 (Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:45:54 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:45:54 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7256 alt.magick.tyagi:24903 Sfrthomas wrote: > "John M. Hansen" jmhansen@erols.com wrote: > > > > (( cuts )) > > > > The person who performs a human sacrifice must have the > >'Right of the Knife,' and also be approved by divination through Ifa > >for that particular sacrifice. The rest of the rules are too > >complex to type here, and I would probably be revealing some of the > >'Secrets of the Santeros' if I did. > > > > However, it is woth noting that the first five catagories of > >'choice,' or 'very acceptable' human sacrifices include those who > >voulenter to be sacrificed, from (1) priests who voulenter to be > >sacrificed to the Orisha of their head to (5) slaves purchased from > >miscelanious contributions who voulenter to be sacrificed. > > Very interesting information. I am not privy to secret teachings > involving human sacrifice. However, I find it telling that in both > examples you cite, the sacrifice must be voluntary on the part of the > victim. Common-sense tells me that if it's not voluntary, it's not a > proper sacrifice; in fact, it would be murder. The book by J. Olumide > Lucas, "The religion of the Yorubas", which I cited in a previous > post, contains some discussion on the subject. From what I recall, the > victims would always be volunteers, although Lucas questions just > how voluntary certain of the victims really are. For example, he > relates a category of victim who would be young women raised in the > Oba's palace expressly to become a sacrificial victim. They reportedly > would go willingly and indeed exultantly to their fate, but Lucas > ascribes it to "brainwashing". > > The Hindu practice of sati, in which a widow is expected to throw > herself on her dead husband's funeral pyre, is also attributed to > brainwashing when she does it voluntarily. Lucas also relates as > standard practice the honoring and celebration of sacrificial victims, > who would themselves be venerated almost as gods in the days before > the event. The Aztecs reportedly would do the same for their human > sacrificial victims. As also related by Lucas, human sacrifice > among the Yoruba was always a _public_ affair, and the victim would be > paraded about before the event. The idea was that by merely touching > the victim, one could obtain expiation for past sins, which would "go" > with the victim at his/her death. This idea is not incidentally echoed > in Christian theology, which promises that Christ died for our sins. > It is not incidental because the key concepts of Christianity come out > of Africa, but that's another story. What is relevant here is that if > human sacrifice is carried out in private somewhere, chances are that > it would not pass muster under the strict traditional rules. Chances > are also that it would be sorcery, not at all sanctioned by > traditional religion. The Matamoros killings rather obviously fall > into that category. > > But to respond to something that Cat said in another post (thanks btw > for the complimentary remarks at the end of that post, Cat), it is not > sufficient that Constanzo attempted to placate, or becalm his victims > prior to the ritual, to make the offerings voluntary on the part of > the latter. Constanzo was proceeding according to a certain logic that > suggested familiarity with the tenets of the traditional religion, but > his application of it remained misguided, and put it therefore in the > realm of sorcery for private gain, rather than in the realm of > the traditional religion which is concerned with the cultivation of > iwa pele. > > Some discernment is necessary. To the extent that the priest and the > sorcerer, both, work with energy, or ase, the ritual logic of the two > would share features that are indistinguishable. It is the same with > science or engineering: the same facility that is used to build > tractors to help grow food can also be used to build tanks; the same > technology that can be used to save lives, can be deployed to take > lives, as we see every time the state of Texas takes the life of > another sacrificial victim on death row. > > I would add something else that bears on sacrifice and iwa pele. I > remember being taught by an authoritative source in the Akan religion > the following: He said that some people get into the religion with the > wrong, and wrongful, idea, that they can keep on doing bad things, > trusting that they can keep sacrificing another chicken, goat, or > what-have-you, to wash themselves of sin, and/or to receive protection > even while they habitually do bad, eg. run a criminal enterprise. He > said it doesn't work that way. Think of the sacrifice as giving you a > fresh start. The deal is that you must then apply yourself to the task > of perfecting your spirit, ie. work at developing iwa pele (good > character). If you don't, then the orisha or the abosom will > eventually not only ignore your sacrifices, but even bring down their > wrath upon you. Nana Tigare, in the Akan tradition, is particularly > wrathful, and not to be messed with. He is known as a "witch-catcher". > In the Yoruba context, Eshu will toy with you, and set you up for a > fall, and Ogun and Sango would strike you down without mercy. If > > Constanzo felt he could keep on doing wrong, while calling on the > protection of Ogun/Zarabanda indefinitely, he was sadly mistaken, and > actual events proved that his protection ran out, in accordance with > the traditional teaching. This is a teaching that should be heeded by > those drawn to traditional African religion seeking personal gain > rather than spiritual growth. > > In this same context, I have some misgivings about Palo Mayombe. I do > not know enough about it to form any firm opinion. But the idea that > one would enter into an alliance with the spirit of a deceased person > who was of less than noble character suggests to me sorcery as the > intent, not the development of iwa pele. Such deceased spirits can no > doubt do evil bidding, but the protection that they can offer is > limited, and certainly can offer no protection from the trickery of > Eshu, or the wrath of Ogun or Shango. Constanzo might have had more > protection, and a greater run of "luck", had he made his offerings to > the same lower 4th dimensional (reptilian) beings that for the time > being keep the Western elites in their world-dominant position. > Sorcerers who seek to work with the orisha of traditional African > religion should not expect long-term "success". > > Having said that, let me add that I know for a fact, having had two > Kikongo teachers, that the idea that I gained of the traditional > religion of the Kongo is far removed from what I could gather from > this discussion as defining Palo Mayombe. The teachings on which I > rely are mostly oral, but for those who like written sources, see > > Kimbwandende Kia Bunseki Fu-kiau, > "Self-Healing Power and Therapy: Old Teachings from Africa". > > Fu-kiau is Kikongo, and he represents his teachings as coming from a > larger Bantu tradition, of which the Kikongo are a part. See also > > Patrick Bowen, > "Ancient wisdom in Africa", in the > Journal of Comparative Religion (1969), > and my comment on it on the web at > http://TheAfrican.Com/Magazine/MagAncWis.htm . > > Finally, see > > Credo Mutwa, > "Song of the stars: Lore of a Zulu Shaman." > > Baba Credo Mutwa is not Kikongo, but as a > Zulu, he comes out of the larger Bantu tradition of which the Kikongo > form part. > > There is not a hint of sorcery in these teachings, and plenty of > wisdom for those whose aim is the perfection of spirit, and the > cultivation of iwa pele. Therefore, any essentialist criticisms > that may be aimed at the Palo Mayombe tradition, whether based on > prior principle, or based on a sort of ex-post inductive inference > from the terrible example of Matamoros, should not be generalized to > include the entire Kikongo tradition. > > But it does raise a question that I am hoping some Palero may answer: > Does Palo have an explicit concern for the development of iwa pele in > its practitioners? I would already grant, I think, that the sorcerer's > path, as distinct from the religious tradition, is available for those > practitioners of Palo that seek it, as I would grant that the > sorcerer's tradition, in Africa as elsewhere, runs pretty much > parallel to religious tradition wherever the latter has developed a > "technology" for tapping into real spiritual or psychic power. The > difference is that sorcery proceeds without the moral restraints that > attend a conscious concern with the development of iwa pele. > > Peace, > Grisso > "An offering of ... an unassailable inner peace ... is superior to the > [ase] of blood..." -- Ra Un Nefer Amen Thanks again for a very interesting post. I have no comments, but i am following the disucssion with interest, as always. Thnalks for the references, too. cat yronwode Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <399609C0.3F23@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: Human Sacrifice in Traditional African Religion (was The Matamoros Affair (was Palo Mayombe: The 'Dark Side' of Santeria?...)) References: <20000812151842.15885.00000793@ng-ce1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 152 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 02:30:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.136.180 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 966133844 209.204.136.180 (Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:30:44 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:30:44 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7226 alt.magick.tyagi:24861 Sfrthomas wrote: > > >From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (E. C. Ballard) > >Date: 8/12/00 2:21 AM EST > >Message-id: > > > While I have read references to human sacrifice in 19th century > > Nigeria and earlier - it is worth noting that the accounts come from > > very dubious sources - the competition (ie missionaries). There is > > no record of the Kongolese performing human sacrifice as a part of > > regular religious ritual, even as far back as the 1400's when the > > portuguese first had contacts with them. > > > > I don't know about the Kikongo, but the Yoruba and the Akan do not > deny, in fact affirm without defensiveness, that ritual human > sacrifice is/was part of their traditional religious practice.[1] To > the modern mind this is an abhorrent practice, and, for many, > sufficient to put traditional African religion beyond the pale > (forgive the pun). For those, such as myself, who would seek to defend > traditional African religion on this score, the proper defense is not > indignation, still less is it denial. The proper defense lies, > as always, in Truth. > > I will go out on a limb here and say that there is nothing wrong per > se in human sacrifice, although I hasten to add that there is clearly > something wrong in the "human sacrifice" recounted in the Matamoros > affair. It depends. There is an aspect of human sacrifice that can be > heroic. In the Akan tradition, there is the story told of the priest > who, when the gods required a human sacrifice to end the suffering of > the people, offered himself. The Christian crucifixion story is seen > by the traditional African as a story of human sacrifice, of the same > noble sort exemplified by the traditional story of the Akan. In the > African warrior tradition, indeed every warrior tradition, it is > understood that the essence of warriorhood lies in his willingness > of the warrior/soldier to sacrifice self for the good of the larger > collective. So, to the mind of the traditional African, you cannot > believe in the rightness of Christ's crucifixion, yet condemn human > sacrifice per se. A more nuanced judgment is required. The > traditional African also considers that the bellicosity of the West > (WW I, WW II, Korea, Viet Nam, etc., not to mention the Jewish > holocaust, and the African holocaust) represents a very special kind > of ongoing human sacrifice to appease the insatiable appetite of the > gods that the West really worship. There is therefore again reason to > question the sincerity of Western condemnation of human sacrifice, > given the staggering scale on which the latter, from one viewpoint, > appear to practice it.[2] > > Be all that as it may, it is also clearly the case that pure and > simple murder, motivated not by the greater good of the collective, > but by the wrongful seeking of private monetary advantage, is simply > wrong. When such murder is committed in a ritual context it is > especially abhorrent. Here is where another incident recounted in Provost's book about he Matamoros killings is very telling: It seems that one of the victims, a Mexican man, who was kidnapped and taken to the ranch to be sacrificed, happened to have a gun hidden on his person, When he was released and told to lay face down in the shed, he jumped up and shot at his would-be killers. They in turn pulled guns and shot him dead. At this point, Adolfo Constanzo decalred that his death was a murder, NOT a sacrifice, and that his body was not to be offered to Zarabanda or bled into the nganga. His body was taken out and hastily buried. Constanzo then instructed two of his group members to go out at once and bring back the first person they could find, to use as a sacrifice, because the signs were now ominous. They did so, overtaking a young boy in the road nearby, throwing a blanket over his head, and dragging him to the ranch. He was sacrificed at once. As soon as he was dead, one of the participants, Elio Hernandez, recognized the boy as his own cousin, much to his horror and sorrow. But, as Hernanndez said later, when explaining this event to the authorities, by then it was too late, the boy was dead. The point of this tale is that in Matamoros, human *death* was not sufficient for a *sacfrifice* -- the victim had to be quiet and subdued, and had to be dispatched in a ritually proper way, or Constanzo did not deem that his brains, blood, or bones could be placed in the nganga. Again, i am not making excuses for Constanzo here, simply pointing out that his premises were apparently in agreement with traditional concepts about human sacrifice -- or ANY kind of animal sacrifice -- in which quiet acceptance on the part of the victim is perceived by the officiator as a tacit agreement to be killed. In fact, in describing the other killings, some members of the group noted that Constanzo quieted both animals and humans before killing them by touching them gently and talking to them. > The question it legitimately raises is whether the tradition from > which it derives is also, in an essential way, abhorrent. That would > be an unwarranted conclusion I think. All power is ultimately morally > neutral. Moral judgements must attach to the _use_ of power rather > than to power itself. In the case at hand, it is clear to those who > _know of_ (as opposed merely to reading) these things that a certain > power derives from sacrifice -- the offering of the ase of minerals, > plants, animals, and indeed of humans. In my opinion, human > sacrifice may only be justified when the victim volunteers, which was > a condition clearly not met in the Matamoros affair. I also expect > that much of the traditional practice in Africa did not satisfy this > condition. But the real issue at hand requires us, not so much to pass > judgment on the morality of specific acts of human sacrifice, but to > pass judgment on the whole religious tradition from which it derives. > > My own take on this is that religion, in the true sense, involves (and > literally means) a tying back to oneness with Prime Creator. This > endeavor is essentially spiritual, since that is the true essence > which we share with Prime Creator. Thus a true religion ultimately > will involve the manipulation of spiritual power or ase. However, not > all manipulation of spiritual power serves a religious purpose, and > indeed, the wrongful exercise of spiritual power, indeed of any power, > will take us even further away from a reyoking to oneness with Prime > Creator. Traditional African religion is very clear on this point, as > we see from the wisdom inherent in the proverb "what goes around, > comes around", the functional equivalent of the Golden Rule. At > the same time, sorcerers often wear religious garb for the cover it > provides. We must not be deceived by them, nor should we throw the > baby out with the bath-water when we honestly confront aspects of the > traditional African religion that a modern sensibility finds > abhorrent. > > Peace, > Grisso > > "An offering of ... unassailable inner peace ... is superior to the > [ase] of blood..." -- Ra Un Nefer Amen > > [1] I rely here on oral teaching from authoritative Yoruba and Akan > sources. For those who want written sources, see J. Olumide Lucas, > "The religion of the Yorubas". > > [2] In this context, see also David Icke, "The Biggest Secret", in > which it is argued that Western world domination has as its spiritual > basis the ritual appeasement of lower 4th-dimensional reptilian beings > whose appetite for human blood sacrifice is appeased through recurrent > warfare among other means. It is alleged there that the British Royal > Family are reptilian, also George Bush and many others of the > "Establishment". Thanks for a very thought-provoking post, Grisso. cat yronwode Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html No personal e-mail, please; just catch me in usenet; i read it daily. Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html Send e-mail with your street address to catalogue@luckymojo.com and receive our free 32 page catalogue of hoodoo supplies and amulets
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