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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.orisha,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (E. C. Ballard) Subject: Re: Palo Mayombe: The 'Dark Side' of Santeria? (was Drums & Shadows) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 20:24:36 -0500 I'm just referring back to a few comments and questions raised respectively by Dreadcomber and Richard Sprigg. First of all, to remark on Richard's regretable mention of the matamoros affair, I pose a only somewhat rhetorical question in response: Do you consider a mass murderer who claims to be killing people because God wants him to (as more than one has claimed over the years) to be a representative (or any kind of) Christian? I would think not. Adolfo Constanzo claimed many things, but the fact remains that he borrowed ideas from a number of traditions and perverted them to his own murderous ends. He was neither practicing anything approaching palo nor was he a validly initiated palero. He was simply a madman and a criminal. As for Carlos Montenegro, well I appologize to him for mentioning his name in the same posting as this other. He is a terrible writer. He appears to have valid initiations in both Palo and Quimbanda. The problem is twofold. First of all, Palo and Quimbanda are cousins. They are both religions that developed out of Bantu traditions, one out of primarily Kongo origins in Cuba and the other out of primarily Kimbundu roots in Brazil. He can't seem to understand that one should practice them separately and not as if they were one and the same. As a result, he confounds the two constantly. I have seen some titles that he produced in limited circulation that were intended originally to be sold only to palo initiates. In these, his information is more or less accurate, unlike in "Palo Mayombe: The Dark Side of Santeria" whicxh is pure fantasy and rubbish. However, even where he deals with real traditions he can't seem to keep one straight in his head and mixes them disgracefully. I'm not being a stuffed shirt about this. They are DIFFERENT traditions and aught to be practiced as separate traditions even if they get practiced side by side. Also, while a duly initated practitioner may learn some useful things out of books, these traditions are de-facto not receiveable other than through valid initiation by a valid palero who has been initiated into the level that allows him to do so. This isn't a subtefuge. The reason is that each house works with specific lines of spirits with whom pacts have been made. One can only gain access through the approval of the spirits of a particular house and the services of a validly initiated priest in that line. There is no such thing as self-initiation. That may be why there are so many disappointed with new age, neopagan and wiccan traditions. So they continue to look for something that really works. However, to enter here, they need to leave those broomsticks and self-published books of shadows at the door. Salamaleko, Eoghan -- +o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o E. C. Ballard Debajo del Laurel yo tengo mi confianza Path: typhoon.sonic.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!06-101.002.popsite.net!user From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (E. C. Ballard) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.orisha,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick Subject: Re: Palo Mayombe: The 'Dark Side' pt 2 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 07:28:41 -0500 Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 48 Sender: eoghanballard@06-101.002.popsite.net Message-ID:References: <3981A062.C5754423@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <39823CBC.5E27@luckymojo.com> <39844331.E58C20E@mailbox.bellatlantic.net> <8m843a$k6r@bolt.sonic.net> <39879EFB.248C@sympatico.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 06-101.002.popsite.net Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:24746 alt.religion.orisha:7140 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:24797 alt.magick:206455 alt.pagan.magick:24029 Ok, I'm inhaling the coffee fumes this morning before going to the office. Here are a few more remarks. If you can't read spanish there are still a couple of decent articles, chapters etc that you can read for a better understanding of the subject. There are a couple of useful chapters in two of Robert Feris Thompson's books "Flash of the Spirit" and "Face of the Gods:Art and Altars of Africa and African Americas". Another book which has a good section explaining Palo is Eugenio Matibag's "Afro-Cuban Religious Experience: Cultural Reflections in Narrative". Palo is derived from the religious traditions of the Congo and Angola primarily. In fact, what has been identified as "Congo" and which has been the basis of African religious traditions covering far more of the Americas than it's more famous cousin, the Yoruba traditions, is made of the traditions of various closelyt related cultures from West Central (Bantu speaking) Africa. The main focus of Congo religion is the ancestors, as in most of the southern half of Africa. A great deal of political rhetoric designed to make the Yoruba religion look more respectable at the expense of the Bantu was engendered during the pan-Yoruban movement in the Americas in the final years of the 19th century. Much of this was spoon fed to anthropologists, who for their own reasons were more attracted to Yoruban derived traditions than the Bantu. Thus, such ideas found their way into print. This brings us to Mr. Montenegro. What you have in his book "Palo Mayombe: The Dark Side of Santeria" is a work of creative fiction. In only the most vague ways does it in any way resemble any form of Palo. It should also be pointed out that there is no such thing as "self-initiation" in Palo. As one must be formally presented to and accepted by the spirits of a specific line of palo by one of their accepted priests, self initiation is impossible. There is great beauty as well as power in Congo religion. If you have any specific questions, I will try to answer what I can. Salamaleko, Eoghan -- +o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o E. C. Ballard Debajo del Laurel yo tengo mi confianza
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