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To: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi From: catherine yronwodeSubject: Re: Olosi...the devil? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 03:49:45 GMT OmiJuba wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone could share any information they have on > Olosi. Is he really what we would call the devil in Ocha? Why don't we > know more of him? Why is he shrouded in secrecy? The only information > I was able to find on Olosi is this... > > Against the forces of light, there is darkness and gloom; at the > beginning of creation, there is destruction; and before order there is > chaos and confusion. > > These concepts were known to the Yoruba, who attributed these > characteristics of what we know as the devil to Olosi. > Olosi was created by Olodumare, who gave him powers, intelligence, > autonomy and physical perfection, as well as the invaluable gift of > immortality. but this first being to inhabit the Earth felt powerful > and beautiful and wanted to make his intelligence prevail over the > intelligence of Olodumare himself. His pride and vanity grew until > Olodumare became angry and wanted to punish him with fire. Olosi > therefore took refuge inside the Earth, carrying with him the fire > that menaced him. Thereafter he adapted his currant name, denying his > first name, Omo Oba. Ever since, he has tried to cause men to deviate > from good, attempting to awake in them a rebellious nature and evil > thoughts and actions, estranging them from the First Cause. > > This information comes from "The Tarot of the Orisha" book and I > don't consider it good reference material. > > I am very curious to know more so if anyone can share with me, > please do. I too would be interested to hear more on this entity. The story as related certainly sounds Judeo-Christian Thanks for your candor in noting that the book you got this from is not good reference material! cat yronwode Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html No personal e-mail, please; just catch me in usenet; i read it daily. Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html Send e-mail with your street address to catalogue@luckymojo.com and receive our free 32 page catalogue of hoodoo supplies and amulets Path: typhoon.sonic.net!newsfeed2.skycache.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!europa.netcrusader.net!207.103.147.20!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!01-047.002.popsite.net!user From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (E. C. Ballard) Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: Olosi...the devil? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:02:41 -0500 Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 14 Sender: eoghanballard@01-047.002.popsite.net Message-ID: References: <39961C4A.4AA6@luckymojo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 01-047.002.popsite.net Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7243 alt.magick.tyagi:24879 I think Cat is very on target with her remarks about Olosi. It appears that Olosi is the result of Christian influence in the 19th century. There is no extensive literature on Olosi and mostly he exists in Cuban literature. In Brazil, Exu has been cast in the image of the devil and in the bible written in Yoruba it is also Exu whse name is used for that of the devil. Eoghan -- +o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o E. C. Ballard Debajo del Laurel yo tengo mi confianza Path: typhoon.sonic.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.rt.ru!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!kiblah.demon.co.uk!jake From: jake Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: Olosi...the devil? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 19:39:21 +0100 Organization: kiblah Message-ID: References: <39961C4A.4AA6@luckymojo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kiblah.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: kiblah.demon.co.uk:194.222.62.222 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 966192825 nnrp-07:6253 NO-IDENT kiblah.demon.co.uk:194.222.62.222 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Lines: 26 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7246 alt.magick.tyagi:24883 In article , E. C. Ballard writes >I think Cat is very on target with her remarks about Olosi. It appears >that Olosi is the result of Christian influence in the 19th century. There >is no extensive literature on Olosi and mostly he exists in Cuban >literature. In Brazil, Exu has been cast in the image of the devil and in >the bible written in Yoruba it is also Exu whse name is used for that of >the devil. The syncretism of Exu's with Grimoireum Verum spirits in Brazil is a perennial fascination of mine. I'd be very interested if anyone has information in addition to that in Teixeira Alves Neto's 'Pomba Gira' ALways JSK. The Gnostic Alchemical Church of Typhon-Christ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/7770/ Ye Olde Goat's Shoppe http://yogs.AvatarSearch.com All events and institutions other than those portrayed in this Journal are fictitious Path: typhoon.sonic.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!10-095.002.popsite.net!user From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (E. C. Ballard) Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: Olosi...the devil? Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:34:16 -0500 Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 16 Sender: eoghanballard@10-095.002.popsite.net Message-ID: References: <39961C4A.4AA6@luckymojo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 10-095.002.popsite.net Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7252 alt.magick.tyagi:24894 Jake, Nothing in English but if you can read French, check out Stefania Capone's "La quête de l'Afrique dans le candomblé: Pouvoir et tradition au Brésil." 1999. Éditions Karthala. Paris. It contains some interesting discussions of Exu and Pompa Gira (ultimately an Angolan deity and not Exu at all). Eoghan -- +o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o+o E. C. Ballard Debajo del Laurel yo tengo mi confianza Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <39977785.304F@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Reply-To: alt.religion.orisha, alt.magick.tyagi, alt.satanism Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism Subject: [Fwd: Re: Olosi...the devil?] Content-Type: message/news Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Lines: 95 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 04:31:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.142.133 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 966227478 209.204.142.133 (Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:31:18 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:31:18 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:24902 alt.satanism:153830 Path: typhoon.sonic.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail ~From: Baba Osundiya ~Newsgroups: alt.religion.orisha ~Subject: Re: Olosi...the devil? ~Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:13:56 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <8n732h$lc8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> ~References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.29.18.219 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Aug 13 21:13:56 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x65.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 24.29.18.219 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDosundiya ~Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.religion.orisha:7249 OmiJuba, Alaafia! Good to see you here! This question has come up in other circles and I have yet to hear either a) an Ifa traditional practitioner or b) someone born native to Yorubaland (and who is not Xtian or Muslim) agree with this idea. It has been said by so many Yoruba people - in print and in conversation - that the concept of a Devil is alien to the Yoruba culture, as is a concept of Hell. These seem to be, in my opinion, inventions that have sources from alien religions and their impact on the Yoruba culture. I am NOT a linguist, nor am I fluent in Yoruba. However, I believe that the word would mean "Owner of the Left". Obviously, if one considers the left hand path as it is commonly identified by those outside of its parameters, this may be an allusion to a devil-esque figure. However, we should also consider that within the word Osoosi we have the same implication - the left side. This is sometimes translated as the left handed sorcerer or the magician of the left/left side. I don't think Osoosi has any ties to evil. In fact, some folks suggest that he doesn't do magic at all, but battles the Iyaami. I don't agree with the last assertion, but it has been presented. If one takes the Opon Ifa into consideration, the Otun-Opon is the right side of the Opon Ifa, while the Osi-Opon is the left side. The Otun-Opon is ruled by the sacred Odu Ifa Ogbe, while the Osi-Opon is ruled by the sacred Odu Ifa Oyeku. Ogbe = light, rules the forces that govern the day, illuminates, reveals, things are revealed in its light, the senior masculine force in the Universe, etc. It is comprised of all "open" segments: I I I I Four points of light, all open, all revealing. Oyeku = darkness, the ultimate unknown, the forces of the night (not inherently to be called "evil", but perhaps elusive in nature), blockages, Ancestral energies, the senior feminine force in the Universe, etc. It is a feminine energy that is both elusive and obscured. It is comprised of all four "closed" segments. II II II II The left hand path, or the left side of the Opon (which has a host of other symbols and metaphysical implications), is that which is obscured from view, that which is not readily revealed. It is the veil that shrouds one's understanding. It is also the portal through which one is transformed and returned to Orun (Heaven). The idea of presenting those metaphysical elements akin to the Osi-Opon (which reflects the left side of all of life micro and macrocosmically) "evil" or the "devil" is, in my opinion, the mark of a Xtian society that damns what it fails to understand. This is the same flawed logic that has condemned the Iyaami as evil, destructive forces that are able to do no good and should be avoided at all cost. This is ignorant of the nature of this feminine power and its full potential - both productive and non-productive. It would seem to me that the Olosi idea comes from a similar misunderstanding and subsequent damning. I could be way off here, but that's my lengthy two cents! See you on your great forum! Ire O, Osundiya Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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