THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
	a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.

To: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.chaos
From: catherine yronwode 
Subject: Re: CAT : voodoo, santeria, etc. books
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 04:59:38 GMT

zebra87 wrote:
> 
> > Dagon Productions (Doug) wrote:
> >
> > > zebra87 wrote:
> > >
> > > > cat yronwode wrote: 
> > > >
> > > > I also pointed out (in usenet and eventually in the
> > > > introduction to a book i wrote on the subject of hoodoo herb
> > > > magic) that hoodoo contains much material gleaned from
> > > > Native American magic. Few Euro-style mages trash THAT,
> > > > considering it a viable form of shamanism. The implication
> > > > of their respect for Native American shamanism and
> > > > disrespect for hoodoo is clear to me -- it's "cool" to have
> > > > Cherokee or other Native forebears (many "white" Americans
> > > > do) and to study their shamanic form of magic, but it's not
> > > > so cool to have African forebears or to study African forms
> > > > of magic -- at least not if you consider yourself "white." 
> > > 
> > > given the above, can you recommend the Falcon Press books on 
> > > voodoo and related topics?
>
> > There is only one book on Voodoo  in the New Falcon catalogue...
> > it's an ok intro to Voodoo for someone coming from a anglo 
> > ceremonial magick background and for the most part outlines 
> > Jason S. Blacks experiences involving himself in this
> > particular magikcal paradigm... 

First, since you asked me to respond to this, i want to make
it clear that my work is and has always been among people
who were born in the USA. I am not a member of an African or
African-Diasporic initiatic religion. My magical study and
practice of hoodoo grew from my contact with people in
places like East Oakland, California, Valdosta, Georgia, 
Lake Charles, Louisiana, and Chicago, Illinois. The folks
who taught and continue to teach me are generally adherents
to a Christian denomination, with cultural family traditions
that incorporate centuries-old African, Native American, and
Germano-British forms of magic. 

I know it seems like hairsplitting to some folks, but i know
only as much about Voodoo (the religion of the Fon and Ewe
people of Benin and their descendants in Haiti and
elsewhere) and Santeria / Lukumi (the religion of the Yoruba
people of Nigeria and their descendants in Cuba, Brazil, and
elsewhere) as Palo (the religion of the Bantu people of the
Congo and their descendants in Cuba, Brazil, and elsewhere)
as i need to know to trace the African strain of belief and
practice in US hoodoo magic. Most of the African core in
hoodoo  springs from Palo -- the Congo religion -- as it
turns out. 

But i will venture an opinion on the Jason S. Black book: I
think it is neither worse nor better than others of its
kind, but it is written by someone who came to a new culture
and new religion with the baggage of his original culture
(general Euro-style traditions) and his adopted culture
(ceremonial magic). He was, when he entered Voodoo, in some
sense of the word, an "exoticist," one seeking to learn
about the lives and works of others, but not truly
abandoning himself to their ways, nor willing to work WITH
them to bring their beliefs to public knowledge in their own
words, except through himself as an interpreter of his own
experience. 

There are reasons for this, of course, and the language
barrier, more than the race barrier, is the chief among
these reasons. 

It is easy enough for me to point out that the best books on
Voodoo in English do not yet exist and that when they are
published they will be written by Haitians or citizens of
Benin. But where are those books? How long must we wait?
Until the authors and the publishers come along and these
books are available in English, Voodoo will remain fairly
exotic in the USA and the average Anglo-American will only
be able to approach it through personal immersion in the
culture by living in Haiti or Benin or at second hand, by
reading about another Anglo-type person who did so. 

> > than there are some simplistic 
> > spells and god form backgrounds/practices, etc.   

In my humble opinion, the use of the gods of another culture
as "god forms" marks a book as largely foreign to rather
than authentic to the tradition it purports to describe. 

As Ken Kesey once said, "You're either on the bus or you're
off the bus." Schroedinger said something similar about his
cat. If you are IN a region and IN its culture, you can't
simultaneously be looking AT it through the eyes of a
Jungian-Chaote. 

> > I've been told that if
> > you want to read a decent book on Voodoo  or related 
> >paradigms one must learn to read French or Portuguese
 
I personally would not call Voodoo a "paradigm" per se. It
is a religion. 

But i agree with Doug that if you want to learn about the
religious paradigms behind Benin-derived New World
religions, you must read French (for the Haitian material)
and Portuguese (for the Brazilian material). I would add
that you could also travel to Benin in Africa and learn
about Voodoo there, as it is the official state religion of
Benin. . 

The same is true of Cuban Santeria / Lukumi  -- all the good
books are in Spanish. Or you could go to Nigeria and get the
Lukumi material there in its earlier, non Christianized
form. 

> I can read French a little and a fair amount of Spanish, so I'm 
> fine there.
> 
> > ... this
> > from a Psychologist/Quimbanda/Umbanda practioner friend in 
> > Rio de Janeiro, Brazil and another Voudon practioner from
> > El Salavador.  The best book in English I'd say is Maya 
> > Derens "Divine Horseman." 

I agree that this remains the best English book on Haitian
Voodoo. It is somewhat outdated -- as if a book about
Pentecostal Black Christianity as it was in the 1930s and
1940s remained our only resource on African American
religious trends -- but it is still solid and well-respected
for its accuracy. 

> > I've found it best when reading 
> > books in English on Voudon/Santeria, etc. to not take what 
> > each author states at face value... 

I agree, and i would extend this caveat to all books
purporting to explain the culture and religion of any region
or era that are written by someone not of that region or
era! 

> > but to find the thread
> > that permeates all these books
> 
> this is how I approach ALL my reading, be it Burroughs, Gysin,
> Lronhubbard, MWParsons, MaxErnst, SDali, AndreBreton, AEWiate, 
> ACrowley, or whoever.

I find this admirable. In my experience as well, the
cross-connections between information provided by different
authors often reveals more of the common substance beneath
their individual interpretations than one would expect. 

> > [...] along with meditations on each of the Loa/Orixas and
> > interact directly. That's my two cents worth.

Spoken like a true Chaos Mage -- that is, you wish to deal
with the loas and orishas "directly" rather than through a
traditional initiation with a concomitant cultural immersion
-- and more power to you, i say! But if you write a book on
it, Doug, i wager you'd be honest enough to indicate that
yours is an interpretive rather than a traditional
viewpoint. 
>
> thanks for your 2 of pantacles.

cat yronwode 

    Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/catalogue.html