THE |
|
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects. |
To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick,alt.divination,alt.tarot,alt.consciousness.mysticism From: nagasivaSubject: Symbolic Lattices, Elegance, and Magical Value Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:55:43 GMT 50030627 viii om Pisces-Age-Y2006 nagasiva: #>#> anyone can throw an attribution system together. farid al-qahar: #># why then aren't they all as popular as 777? nagasiva: #> magic is the domain of the misfit. Crowley promotes as a #> Bad Boy, drawing attention with his antipathy. I'd suggest #> that Agrippa's "Three Books of Occult Philosophy" and maybe #> even the pseudo-Agrippa's "Fourth Book of Occult Philosophy" #> are more popular. otherwise I haven't noticed many other #> attribution systems constructed which might compete. Joseph : # Barret's "The Magus"? well, that's somewhat of a ringer, since Barrett's work is a redaction of Agrippa. :> good suggestion nonetheless. I'm sure there are others. I don't know how popular 777 is in comparison with modern texts ostensibly providing some kind of attribution-matrix. divination systems sometimes turn into such things (tarot for example, or sefirotic trees as Crowley enjoyed in table-form). #>#> his source was von Rosenroth. competent scholars on the #>#> subject of the Kabbalah are clear: Crowley was a sham. #># #># which authority asserts this? #> #> most, probably. notably Scholem. # # neo-cabbala vs orthodox cabbala. that's certainly one way of looking at it, but considering what Kabbalah usually contains, 777 is kinda wan for it. compare Eisen, or classics like Pico della Mirandola or something. lattices aren't very much more than outlines, or models for symbolic cross-fertilization in ritual. even Levi is arguably more substantive, however contrived or uniquely-derived his Neo-Kabbalah might be. one might have to add "The Book of Thoth" to really begin QBLing with Crowley (hey that should be a book title!). please don't overlook my praise for 777 as an *example of an occult tool*, however. as 'Neo-Kabbalah' it fails to be engaging (wrapped up in deception and Hebrewphilic fantasies as such an effort is), but as a map for internal associations of meaning and what the Crowleyans and those qabalists call 'a filing system for all of language using gematria' it is worthy of consideration as a divinatory and ceremonial lattice moreso than some kind outline of Neo-Jewish-Mysticism. #># why is the tzaddi - heh switch/ interchange nonsense? #> #> inelegant. illogical. unsustainable. based on some sort #> of interior experience of Crowley's rather than any #> other obvious and comprehendable notion. I'd love to #> see it defended here as somehow sensible. thanks. # # This gets back to my thesis on the irrationality of # divination, any set of symbols or correspondences that # works consistently for the practitioner are legitimate note: I never raised the subject of 'legitimacy'. I don't know how one would go about assessing that quality per se. # and do not need the imprimatur of some "legitimate" or # "orthodox" system to validate them. they certainly do for some people. for you and for me maybe the criteria is a bit different (e.g. results), as have the Crowleyites also contended. # Obviously this switch was important for crowley, and # though i have my own ideas about it, i do not use it # in my own practice. that doesn't touch the criticisms which I brought to bear against it (one of which -- 'nonsense' -- Jason successfully defended and I congratulated him on it :>). the other three were "inelegant, illogical, and unsustainable". the latter is the weakest, of course, but the first two you seem to be merely saying are unimportant, which of course I deny. I would counter your assertion by saying that 'legitimacy' without basis is valueless, and I'd agree that absent such a basis, anything will do. if all one wishes to do is look into a batch of random objects and divine, then it doesn't really matter what those objects are if one is skilled as a diviner, and one's selection is arguably arbitrary. if this is your point (that divination is a personal art that requires no standardization for its result), then I agree. where I disagree is when we begin to speak of constructs that will be used in ritual for meditation and extreme intensity of concentration, affecting consciousness in ways presumed related to the object of focus itself. in such cases I suggest that elegance, symmetry, and logic are conducive to greater personal balance, successful self-absorption attuning to greater natural character and rationality are arguably better tools for the task. the real issue where this discussion is concerned is which of these are more elegant, have effects as targets of reflection and focus that one desires, and are conducive to inspiring volitional power, directionality, and what is generally associated with the aims of magic. this is PARTICULARLY true in mystical applications of magic, where spiritual advance or progress are sought. ignoring the actual results, one could just as well toss a vase into the air and look at shards in divinatory reverie. how this would affect a constant or repetitive absorption on its configuration is the more interesting issue: one seldom addressed or analyzed on account of the lack of familiarity with multitudes of systems or focal tools (the chosen one being adopted by virtue of some tradition, dogma, or irrational predisposition that will usually serve to reify the very obstacles one may seek to overcome). compare such 'database' conceptual lattices as 777 with graphics that have traditional meaning and value, such as mandalas, or tankhas, or sand paintings. radial symmetry, arguably, is of comparably greater value in being conducive to personal integration than mere bipolar symmetry. linear constructs, proceeding from some origin-point and moving on to an end-point, rather than a circular path recycling back to the origin, are more conceptually in line with certain experiences or values, cosmologies or inspired development. nagasiva -- yronwode.com@nagasiva; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired; HOODOO CATALOGUE! send street addy to: catalogue@luckymojo.com
The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org. |
Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site. |
The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories, each dealing with a different branch of religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge. Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit: |
|
interdisciplinary:
geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc. |
SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):
OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST
Southern
Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo,
including slave narratives & interviews
|