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Spell Motive

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.chaos,alt.magick,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.pagan.magick,alt.pagan
From: lekt8 
Subject: Spell Motive (was Example: Holding Gods Hostage ...)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:45:08 GMT

[a spell coercing Gods in order to preserve the life of one's dog; 
 omitted; see previous posts on the subject]

>Am I to assume that the "Gods" referred to are *not* more-or-less

you may assume anything you like. a spell is a framework of acts
which may be, like a recipe, varied depending upon one's particular
needs and aptitudes, and the circumstances at the casting. some
traditions/cultures foster emphasis on adherence to the rule, while
others more diligently require variation of a repeated or chaotik type

"Gods" are omnipotent is not as rarefied as the One or God or The
Creator God, though the plurality or singuistry of the divine might
be debated endlessly. if you do a spell and see how it feels, then
you can determine with your own experience how it out be defined.

say some divine agent is described as omnipotent. one very simple
reason to perform such an operation is if someone were attempting
to determine the viability of their power and determination, or if
they only cared at the result of the spell and would attempt anything
to achieve that end (damn the consequences).

>It seems to me that attempting to coerce, bribe, or negotiate with,
>anything significantly more powerful than onesself is fairly

totally futile on the surface of consideration. so perhaps the author
of the article had something else in mind. in any case an example of 
a ritual spell is simply what it is. that one happens to be based on
a real situation (Eris the Doggess of Discord and I, doing the spell).
I also did another one with a blue-green ceramic vase in which I placed
all of Eris' hair I could find from the house, a few unspecified tokens
of my affection for her, and a copy of a shopping list which bore her
name and my inscription "HAIEL" (ambiguous). I placed this in the shop
randomly, and watched who encountered it and what they did, claiming no
association with the vase whatever. it yet rests on the altar therein,
with other spellcrafting photos and candles.
but you're talking about the literal futility of it, and I sense
something must be inspiring this aggression and violation of kindred 
spirit's boundaries. mayhaps it is an offering of insult to those in 
whom one does not believe. 

> The being does what it pleases regardless of your opinions on 
> the matter....

granting that

	a) limitless power ('omnipotence') is possible and meaningful

		1 -- "limitlessness" is fictional in my experience,
		     at best a projection or conjecture on the Laws
		     of the cosmos as we understand it;

		2 -- the nature of power is not agreed. mere material
		     advantage may not define the ethical parameters
		     of any particular species (and ethos is arguably power);

	b) the being to which you refer is capable of doing anything
	   of its own volition whatever;

agreed, though it is also possible that one attempts a celebrity or
Trickster element into the arena of deity. the mage might amuse as 
a buffoon such Gods at the back of the class while They respond as 
per their wont (apparently). 

>What am i missing here?

humour? challenge? amusement? actual ritual performance of magic.
what if Hermetic ideas of God being love are true? can such a being
refuse acts of coercion if it is also infinite love? why would such 
a being refuse to comply? if it did, might that not say something
about that 'being of infinite love'? does it reflect how the person 
doing the spell viewed the Gods? or are there too many variables in
a 'spell example'?


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