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Casting Spells

To: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.witchcraft,alt.lucky.w
From: blackman99 
Subject: Re: Casting Spells
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:11:33 GMT

50020311 VI

"Day Brown" :
>> ...if you find a copy of an ancient spell, 

now available in most bookstores.

>> in the original writing of the original language,

not available in most bookstores. mostly found in special libraries
or museums. who do you think will be finding these now? where? ok....

>> can it be as powerful translated? 

fun question. I like metaphysical questions like that. it depends on
whether the vocalization is what determines its 'power' or its form,
or its meaning. only if the meaning is somehow important will the
translation be powerful too.

>> Assuming that it was in the first place, which I dont know.

how could you tell? with *any* "spell"? why do you presume that 'an
ancient spell' would necessarily have words to speak? lots of them
don't, and might be mistaken for cookery by the inept student.

>> And even if you studied the language, how close to the
>> original pronounciation would you havta get, 

yes, that is the follow-up. does it take a specific *spin* on the
words, or is it even worse -- that it takes a particular *person*
or a person prepared and educated in the proper manner to effect
the result of the spell? what if it only works for native speakers
to that region based on inflection and sonic resonance?

>> and would it make a difference if you did not actually think in
>> the language of the original casters?

beautiful. this integrates the magician rather directly. I'd also
add that the religion of the original casters, the mindset, the
whole symbolism accepted by these individuals could be imperative
to a complete reproduction of the spoken charm or spell. whether
any of this would be necessary would depend on how the cosmos is
constructed, magically, and this is why your questions are so
important to the study of magic as a discipline, whether from the
standpoint of a folklorist, a magician, or both.

"Tom" :
> Bother the pronunciation.  That's a very minor point.
> The power of a ritual may vary according to one's cultural set.  The ritual
> may have a very different effect on a person who belongs to the culture in
> which the ritual originated than it would on a person from a different
> culture.

but you didn't address the point of whether the spell itself would
work toward its ostensible ends based on the differences detailed, only
that 'the ritual' (who said there was one?) would have a different
effect on the spellcaster. no surprise there. you've avoided the issue
and merely recontextualized the question. 

> I think you may be misunderstanding how a magical operation works.  

that's because Day Brown wasn't talking about 'operations', but about
spells, which, by and large, tend to be different affairs/events.

> It's not just a matter of saying the right words in the right way.  

for some spells that's *all* it is.

> It's a matter of building up within yourself a set of feelings and 
> concepts that, when triggered by the ritual, result in a specific 
> change in consciousness.

kinda vague there, Tom. what about the spell? if it is a spell 
for healing a sick horse, for example, what good is changing the
consciousness of the spellcaster? do you think it possible for a
mage to 'become a healer' for a period of the spell, laying on
hands and whatever, or are you talking about entering into the
consciousness of the Overlord-God and manipulating the fine wire
of the Cosmic Clock?

do expound!

n
a       B
g      l         b
a     e        e
s    s       a
i   s      s
v  e     t
a d    !
@yronwode.com
(blackman99)

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