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Mysticism and Psychoactives

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.psychoactives,rec.drugs.psychedelic,alt.magick
From: nagasiva 
Subject: Mysticism and Psychoactives (was absinthe)
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:51:28 GMT

50021112 VII

"Arcturius" :
>> It seems kind of humourous to me that a discussion about 
>> absinthe would even take place. 

tools of the sorcerous trade: psychoactives.

>> Does a man need anything exterior to achieve a "state of 
>> Grace" within?

there are many problems with this question that I'll attempt to
address here in brief.

	'a man' -- this seems to presume that all require the same
	  catalysts to achieve the same results; I don't agree that
	  this is true; different people require different stimuli
	  to get to different states; this is reflected in Buddhist
	  tradition as the 'upaya' of the Buddha -- the variety of
	  manifestations of the path by which one might attain.

	'need anything exterior'

Amanda Walker :
>Where does "interior" stop and "exterior" begin?

at the person.

	  the problem with Arcturius' question is, as Amanda 
	  has pointed out with this query, the flexibility of the
	  boundary of the person (since it is a social fiction);
	  the control-freak is in constant need of external 
	  objects to maintain hir delicate balances, while the
	  ascetic has nothing riding on external configuration,
	  even restricting personal aspects to fictional needs
	  (successful ascetics have support-systems in the 
	  society or dissolve without trace).

	'to achieve a "state of Grace" within'
	  this is certainly not the objective of all sorcerers,
	  instead it is the obsession of mystics who believe 
	  that such states exist and may be achieved; secondly,
	  it is not considered here how long such a state lasts,
	  and if entirely subjective, whether psychoactives or
	  other short-term stimuli can be said to effect such
	  states -- usually mystics argue that they do not, but
          only convincingly when looking at them from outside;
	  if one is ONLY speaking of 'within', then it is quite
	  possible that short-term disruption of perceptions
          at engagement of euphoriants does indeed produce the
	  result about which you ask; whether it *depends*
	  upon some outside chemical or other stimulation is
	  entirely dependent upon the human being considered.

a more profitable examination of the mystical aspects of magic
would focus on what "a State of Grace" means and whether there
are any demonstrable cases of someone attaining to it within
recent memory (along with an assessment of those who provided
this evaluation and whether they were capable of really 
establishing that such a condition exists, whether they could
have been fooled by a clever thespian, etc.).  	  

typically the argument (a good one!) against the introduction
of psychoactives as mystical catalysts consists of the
difficulty of remaining sufficiently grounded in the social
and practical world to sustain an outward appearance which
matches that interior glory, and which does not become somehow
warped and twisted due to the nature of the sorcery they've
engaged (depending upon externals for stimulus -- what will
happen when the supply of Grace-Pills vaporizes?).


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