a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


Magicians and Knowledge

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.tantra
From: (nagasiva yronwode)
Subject: Magicians and Knowledge (was Black Magick site, con or real?)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 07:53:06 GMT

50001119 Vom 

"Scot" :
> I have taken a casual interest in magick for a while then I fell away 
> from it, now the interest is back.


> The last time I had an interest in it, I found out a site on Black magick. 
> I sent away an email inquire about more imformation. The email I got back 
> detailed a ritual I had to do before I could be initiated.

valuable: see the ritual before undergoing it.
question: value of initiation?

> I can't remember the exact details but it was something like I 
> had a light a candle at midnight in front of a mirror. I then had 
> to recite the words of the Lords prayer backwards.

Catholic-repellant. unusual, perhaps set up by anti-Christian "sorcerers". 
considering they bill as 'black magick', perhaps this is to be expected.

> It said, I think, if I stopped saying the prayer before I finished it, 
> I would be plauged by demon(s).

typical barrier-placement to reify decision, test your resolve.

> I then had to send my personal details (just name and address etc) 
> to the site plus a note saying I did the above ritual.

note: you were trying to get something from these people; you didn't
      just "have to" send your personal details, you "had to *in order
      that this group would take your request seriously*".

> I did not naturally. What scared me was not, the demon shit 
> (excuse my french), but the power they would have over me on 
> learning of my personal details.

living a less private life, few details could become problematic.
taking risks can yield beneficial results.

> I feel that some of these people who claim to know magick, 
> know no such thing, and are only interested in gaining power 
> and financial gain over others.

responding with regard to a mystical aim (magicK)....

this is quite true. the trick is to determine with some skill who
is who: who is seeking for marks and who wants to share wisdom;
it is important to remember that for some, magic includes social
jockeying, obtaining power and resources, etc. i.e. they may be
using skills we could learn from them were we not focussed on the
fact that they were using them against us. ;>

> Has anybody had a similiar experience?

yes. the problem is one of balancing ignorance (of the position 
and condition of others) against one's intuitive knowledge about
occult subjects. principles which I devised in exploring occult 
and mystical communities and subjects have served me well to 
this day:
		        proceed slowly -- never decide on impulse
		  outlay few resources -- commit to the minimum
           preserve examining attitude -- study the details
		   retain an open mind -- allow for the unexpected
	       get a jump on new folks -- gather information
   	     nurture key relationships -- invest your time wisely
	     rest assured of your path -- remain composed
    	      dedicate yourself wholly -- remain true to your goals

where your conventional methods fail, do exactly what you are doing: 
set out to obtain feedback from as wide an audience as is possible, 
weighing the response and likely experience, insight, behind each 
person's input. select among those which seem most convincing and
proceed accordingly.

I have not found that the problem ever goes away. there is always
some fabulous master claiming special mystical states or magical
power who is just out of my range of perception and insufficiently
of interest such that I will go out of my way to spend the time 
with them that would be necessary to ascertain their condition, 
let alone what I may glean by sharing their time and attentions. 

I've begun to presume that a narrower range of experience truly 
exists between spiritual ignorance and spiritual expertise -- that 
the knowledge of states and psychotechnologies is only of limited 
use, their application achieves minor changes one way or another, 
and that the rest of journey is undertaken intuitively, from a
position of feeling moreso than thought.

::changing premises (now magic without a k)::

however, if you're just talking about magic, then it is pretty easy
to tell who knows about it and who does not, though the styles may
differ from one group to another, one person to another. however,
the principles remain roughly the same, and the signs of this will
permeate the acts and expressions of those with whom one deals. the
key feature to look initially for is intentionality, combined with
a patience that will accept you for who and how fast you move.

blessed beast!

FREE HOODOO CATALOGUE! send street address to: ; ; ; 
emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races