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Magic's Purposes, Viewpoints, Motivations

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic
From: (Nihilist)
Subject: Re: Magic's Purposes, Viewpoints, Motivations
Date: 8 Nov 2003 17:41:41 -0800

"Tom"  wrote in message news:...

> Because magick (in the form of ritual or technique for consciousness
> manipulation) doesn't actually apply any physical energy to anything and it
> doesn't negate the way reality works.

May I ask what your definition of magick is and how you apply it in
your life?

I subscribe to the changes-in-consciousness definition of magick. Of
course, this severely limits what I can accomplish with it and makes
me quite unpopular among my more liberal friends (who see my version
as being watered down, dull, and fluffy).

Concerning the example given by others in this thread, I have used
magick to gain employment. Did my rituals cause changes to ripple
through the mesh of physical reality? No, I don't think so. What
magick did do was bring the best out in me, so to speak, and allow me
to approach the interview with a heightened sense of confidence.
Surely this had some physical effects in the way of nonverbal
communication and such, possibly to the extent that I landed a job
that I wouldn't have otherwise been given. However, because of the
pairing of magick and normal action in my rituals, it's silly to say
that magick is the causal factor of my good fortune. If it was the
causal factor in my gaining employment, then I'd have to say that it
did indeed save me time.

I have also used magick for building interpersonal skills, improving
self-image, and so forth. Not impressive, but it gets me by.

Basically, magick negates the way *my* reality works, and it allows me
to alter my perceptions of the actual reality you're speaking of.
Granted, I am thinning the line between magick and run-of-the-mill
self-help techniques, but until I find something more potent (which I
haven't found in any books, websites, etc. -- I'm not a member of any
magical orders), it's what I'm sticking with.

> If you wish to refute that, all you have to do is demonstrate some
> measurable physical power or some measurable negation of known physical laws
> exerted by such magick in a replicable and controlled setting.

I once believed my elemental invocations were causing dramatic shifts
in room temperature; however, a digital thermometer later told
otherwise. Perhaps some long-time practitioners can achieve more
tangible results with these invocations. It would certainly be very

I also once deluded myself for a week with a pinwheel and telekinesis
experiments. Heheh, that sucked.

As for your replicable and controlled setting, I don't believe anyone
has cared to demonstrate anything substantial under these conditions.
I see this as a shame if there are capable people holding back,
because they effectively have the means to change everything and send
human consciousness skyrocketing. What Greater Work could there be?

As you know, Hermetic philosophy (revealed in _The Kybalion_ and
others) and qabalistic lore suggest that we can override known
physical laws through the application of higher laws. What these
higher laws are, I don't know. The occult world model is based on a
vibratory spectrum, and we should theoretically be able to effect a
deliberate counteraction or abeyance of known physical laws. Why no
one has demonstrated this, I don't know. I guess it's become something
of an unwritten, mutual contract within the magical community: "Hey!
Don't tell anyone and I won't!"

This does call into question a lot of the secrecy involved in magical
orders. I don't mean the secrecy surrounding issues of privacy,
administration, fear of persecution, or even a group's "egregore." I'm
reminded of Crowley's joke concerning his being initiated under the
most dreadful oaths, then receiving instruction in the Hebrew alphabet
and basic astronomy.

I dunno, though. I imagine someone who's followed the Franz Bardon
curriculum in his three books to the letter would be capable of the
physical effects you mention. Or maybe there are sprinklings of
low-profile lodges/temples/caves around the globe that provide
techniques for these effects -- to the Chosen Few. Nevertheless, if we
go by the public scene, it seems the luminaries who have been
practicing magick for decades leave little hope for such abilities and

Do what works, Tom.

Take care.
21/m - philosophy, magick, literature, hip hop

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