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Lifting Curses

To: alt.magick,alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick
From: (nguyen)
Subject: Re: Lifting Curses (was: other)
Date: 27 Mar 2002 16:01:53 -0800

catherine yronwode  wrote in message news:<>...

> > It's not a business relationship
> > but rather friends, acquaintances, friends of friends, etc. 
> Ditto.
> Remember, this discussion started when we were talking about folks who
> nguyen characterized as approaching him for help. I don't know about
> him, but in my reply i made it clear that i have never charged for
> performing a spell or for teaching spell-work. 
> cat yronwode 

First, I completely support the right of any person to make a living
based upon offering their services or products or commodities so long
as informed consent among adults and the acts are not illegal or
fraudulent. I see no difference in the economic right of a priest to
recieve a stipend from a congregation for ministering to someone's
spiritual needs, or a magician charging for the performance of an act
or rendering assistance. This is completely consistent with my
cultural and traditional heiritage, and indeed with historical
precedent among magicians around the world.

However, personally I have never charged so much as a dime in money
for any act. I do however collect 'favors' or barter exchanges of
services and information, which in my view can often be far more
valuable. The situation is the Gambler's Contract or Oath. A person is
obligated only upon delivery of stipulated conditions within the
stated time frame. I might take money in the future, but only in
situations where I could honestly render an obvious benefit 'against
the odds' to someone who did not wish to be obligated to me.

This does two things. First it makes sure that I am not bothered
lightly by someone who wishes to ask a spurious favor. Secondly, it
involves me with only with situations that interest me. It is highly
unlikely for someone to approach me for a trivial task, as they would
not want to incur the 'price'. They tend to only approach me about
situations where they would unlikely to achieve it on their own.

On top of this, I do a great deal of 'pro bono' work. Blessings for
kids, friend and family fertility related work, people really
desperate for curse removal, possession cases, and community security
and criminal investigation, etc.

As far as teaching goes, I don't know how it works for other people
but generally in my view the teacher is economically obligated to the
*student*. Training can be hard, risky, and dangerous work in the
specialities I pursue (thamaturgy, etc.). I often help in mundane and
magical ways in improving the social and economic situation of the
student. In a recent case, I 'against the odds' expedited a reversal
of a child custody situation and a fickle lover turned faithful for a
student. Besides the obligation to the support of the student, I find
that they concentrate much better on their studies if I help them
clear out the mess in their lives that might distract them. I also
need a carrot frankly to balance out the negative aspects of
high-powered magical work.

I find that this approach as I take it or have seen it taken in others
helps reduce abuses and misunderstandings that might occur if the
situation were reversed and the student asked to pay the teacher.

The understanding is that once the student is advanced enough they
then in turn assist the teacher, with helping teach other students or
in projects that the teacher has going on a 'quid pro quo' basis once
they get past a certain point. The teacher makes the upfront
investment and makes the student self sufficient, in turn they get a
long turn helper and ally and someday peer.


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