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To: alt.magick,alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick From: aikeena@yahoo.com (nguyen) Subject: Re: Lifting Curses (was: other) Date: 27 Mar 2002 16:01:53 -0800 catherine yronwodewrote in message news:<3C9EDCFA.3786@luckymojo.com>... > > It's not a business relationship > > but rather friends, acquaintances, friends of friends, etc. > > Ditto. > > Remember, this discussion started when we were talking about folks who > nguyen characterized as approaching him for help. I don't know about > him, but in my reply i made it clear that i have never charged for > performing a spell or for teaching spell-work. > [snip] > > cat yronwode First, I completely support the right of any person to make a living based upon offering their services or products or commodities so long as informed consent among adults and the acts are not illegal or fraudulent. I see no difference in the economic right of a priest to recieve a stipend from a congregation for ministering to someone's spiritual needs, or a magician charging for the performance of an act or rendering assistance. This is completely consistent with my cultural and traditional heiritage, and indeed with historical precedent among magicians around the world. However, personally I have never charged so much as a dime in money for any act. I do however collect 'favors' or barter exchanges of services and information, which in my view can often be far more valuable. The situation is the Gambler's Contract or Oath. A person is obligated only upon delivery of stipulated conditions within the stated time frame. I might take money in the future, but only in situations where I could honestly render an obvious benefit 'against the odds' to someone who did not wish to be obligated to me. This does two things. First it makes sure that I am not bothered lightly by someone who wishes to ask a spurious favor. Secondly, it involves me with only with situations that interest me. It is highly unlikely for someone to approach me for a trivial task, as they would not want to incur the 'price'. They tend to only approach me about situations where they would unlikely to achieve it on their own. On top of this, I do a great deal of 'pro bono' work. Blessings for kids, friend and family fertility related work, people really desperate for curse removal, possession cases, and community security and criminal investigation, etc. As far as teaching goes, I don't know how it works for other people but generally in my view the teacher is economically obligated to the *student*. Training can be hard, risky, and dangerous work in the specialities I pursue (thamaturgy, etc.). I often help in mundane and magical ways in improving the social and economic situation of the student. In a recent case, I 'against the odds' expedited a reversal of a child custody situation and a fickle lover turned faithful for a student. Besides the obligation to the support of the student, I find that they concentrate much better on their studies if I help them clear out the mess in their lives that might distract them. I also need a carrot frankly to balance out the negative aspects of high-powered magical work. I find that this approach as I take it or have seen it taken in others helps reduce abuses and misunderstandings that might occur if the situation were reversed and the student asked to pay the teacher. The understanding is that once the student is advanced enough they then in turn assist the teacher, with helping teach other students or in projects that the teacher has going on a 'quid pro quo' basis once they get past a certain point. The teacher makes the upfront investment and makes the student self sufficient, in turn they get a long turn helper and ally and someday peer. nguyen
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