a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


PCrumhorn: Kenneth Grant

To: alt.magick,alt.magick.chaos,alt.magick.order,alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi
From: (tyaginator)
Subject: PCrumhorn: Kenneth Grant
Date: 27 Mar 1999 01:35:34 -0800

[from Patrick Crumhorn ]


On Sun, 7 Jun 1998 wrote:

> 93....ok, so no takers on the Reguli query.  Anyone besides myself find any
> curious use for Kenneth Grant's work, besides the usual observations I have
> heard over the years regarding his "out thereness" that is.  TOTO is not my
> cup of tea, but Grant's work has occasionally added the most intriguing spice,
> ambiance, and perspective to various aspects of the work that would have
> otherwise gone lacking.

     Hail Kutulu!  ;-)  I was a member of the Typhonian OTO for many
years, and while it's no longer my cup of tea either, my view of Grant's
material is much the same as yours.  Clearly not for everyone, and subject
to an incredible amount of misinterpretation by those with only a cursory
familiarity with it.  A lot of Grant's critics attack him on grounds of
specious scholarship, but my feeling is that they are missing the point.
Grant freely admits in many of his books that he is engaging in intuitive
free-association of words, images, and ideas.  The fact that this method
of association has been of great creative value to dozens of prominent
occultists, artists, musicians, etc. over the past couple of decades seems
to get ignored by his critics.  The same comments apply to Michael
Bertiaux, who at least is *so* far out there that academic criticism just
doesn't seem to enter into the picture. ;-)  Certainly there's nothing in
G.H. Frater H.B.'s editorial annotations to Crowley's works that spark
such inspiration and original approaches to magick, so far.

      Grant is *not* that great a writer, and has always needed an editor
(though it would have to be an editor who deeply understood the topics
Grant was dealing with).  Hence, he gets raked over the coals for
"advocating" positions that he may not actually hold, simply because he's
describing ritual formulae or philosophical positions held by others. 
I've found similar problems occur with my own postings, both here and on
various political lists or newsgroups.  As R.A. Wilson says, "do not
misunderstand me too quickly," and Grant's writings lend themselves to
just that sort of response, alas. 

>  Any Shadow Tarot users here also.

      Yep.  I worked my way through several rituals based on the Shadow
Tarot and/or Nightside tunnels contained in Mishlen Linden's "Typhonian
Teratomas" a few years back.  Still integrating a lot of it to this day.
It pretty well got me *off* the entire set of assumptions regarding schema
of initation and "spiritual progress" contained in the whole Golden
Dawn/A.'.A.'. paradigm.  There *is* no God but Man/Woman indeed, and
nothing to transcend, reject, or rise above.  This is a viewpoint that
colors my opinion of such things as the "bodhisattvic vow" that we were
discussing on the list a few weeks back.  If you meet the Bodhisattva on
the road, kill hir, or at least chant "hell, no, we won't go."  ;-)

>  I have used it for 5 years, not constantly, but as needed.  I have
> found that the spontaneous "initiations" I received from that work took
> far longer to assimilate than any others I have experienced.  Curious on
> other observations.  93 93/93

     One of the more amusing criticisms I've encountered of Grant's
"Nightside of Eden" work with Liber 231 is the whining that "Grant only
dealt with the qlipoth, and not the genii."  Wheras Grant states quite
clearly in Nightside of Eden that the "dayside" symbolism was already
explored by Crowley in his voluminous commentaries on the Atus in the Book
of Thoth.  Linda Falorio and Mishlen have managed to show the incredible
value of Grant's initial exposition, while taking it even further, and
making it accessible to any magickian who wishes to expand hir horizons
beyond Golden Dawn/Crowley assumptions.

     This is not to defend everything that went on in the TOTO over the
past couple of decades.  But I do diferentiate between Grant the mage and
Grant the would-be OHO of an occult order.  I also know, to my own
satisfaction, that Grant managed to create an initiatory pathway via the
TOTO "current" that transcends the limitations of both himself and the
Order he heads.  One need look no further for proof than manifestations
such as Falorio & Linden, TOPY (in its various phases), Amookos and other
magicko-tantrik orders & currents, the Esoteric Order of Dagon, Nema's
Maat magick, and many other flavors of msgickal and occult art & science
that either came out of, were associated with, or received
cross-pollenization from, the Typhonian OTO or Kenneth Grant.  If Grant
had a failing, it came from trying to control or take credit for all the
manifestations of the current.  A common enough failing, that should not
detract from his roles as post-Crowleyan iconoclast, magickian, and
inspirer of original directions in occultism.

     93  93/93


          Patrick Crumhorn        
                 "Compression is the vise of kings"


The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races