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TOP | OCCULTISM | MAGICIslam, Sufism, Magic and More!
To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.islam.sufism,alt.sufi,alt.magick,talk.religion.misc,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic
From: "Slp"
Subject: Re: Islam, Sufism, Magic and More!
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:28:18 -0500
As for being simplistic, I agree. I was using permission in a rather loose
sense.
Let's look at the first instance, attempting to control an entity without
permission. Usually this starts, in the spells that I have seen written
from various ages, with the summoner commanding, and not asking, an entity
to appear or do something for him/her (usually the entity is a god/goddess
from a religion different than the summoners). He attempts to control the
entity through willpower, or magical instruments/designs, and/or by trying
to impress it by speaking a number of attributes that the summoner has (or
supposedly has) that are supposed to indicate to the summoner that he has
the power or authority to do so (again, a possibly dubious proposition. If
the summoner actually has the authority and/or power, the entity, if it
actually exists, will be able to perceive that). Note that in these
instances there is no asking permission of the entity (or anyone else
usually) either directly or by asking nicely to do something. The entity
is not allowed(supposedly) to have any say. Usually in these cases, the
entity is not happy to be there, and if anything goes wrong, will usually
attempt to wreak havoc on the practitioner. Assuming, for the sake of
argument, that such entities exist.
This kind of thing is usually practiced by people dabbling in the darker
side of magic, or by ignorant practitioners, or those whose ego outstrips
their common sense.
The kind of magic where permission is used, in terms of spells, either is an
invocation whereby the practitioner asks the entity to appear and/or do
something, and offers various pleasant, to the entity, gifts/sacrifices to
appease any anger, or to help it, or to pay for its services, depending upon
the relationship with the entity. Oftentimes, but not always, the entity in
this case is part of the practitioners religion.
They ask, and it is up to the entity to decide.
The kind of magic that utilizes forces of nature that are not recognizable
by current scientific thought or method technically isn't magic, but is
rather a technology.
With forces of nature however, one does need to be aware of whether or not
one is plugging into a 120 volt outlet or a 240 volt outlet, so to speak.
The "permissions" in this kind of thing, if we can speak of things like
that, basically apply to whether or not one has the permission to do this
kinds of things, i.e., from a higher authority, whether god/goddess/nature
and tends to be rather tacit and dependent upon more upon individual
circumstances. For an extreme example, if one attempts to use magic to move
a mountain, and the mountain has not given its permission for you to move
it, and decides that it won't, it won't move. And if the mountain gives you
permission to move it, but Nature has not given its permission for you to
move it, it may not move either. If the mountain and the rest of the
universe (and/or god/goddess, depending upon your religious/spiritual
beliefs) give you permission to move it, then it may move, depending upon
how you do it and what your source of power is. If you are just using
personal power, I suspect it won't move even with all of the permissions.
If one has permission to use forces or power or entities that are stronger
than oneself and of suffiencient magnitude to move the mountain, then the
mountain will move.
Does this help explain my position on it a little better? Americans and
some other cultures tend to be rather poor at seeking permission and
observing boundaries, which is one reason why I phrase it this way.
Scott
"Blue Rajah" wrote in message
news:SQcq7.1839$N_4.436650@news.uswest.net...
>
> "Slp" wrote in message
> news:PN6q7.648$GX6.408213@news.uswest.net...
> > There are basically two kinds of magic. One where one attempts
> > to control or command or force various entities and powers without
> > permission, and one where one does things by permission.
>
> This is extremely simplistic. And wrong.
>
>
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