a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


Islam, Sufism, Magic and More!

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.islam.sufism,alt.sufi,alt.magick,talk.religion.misc,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic
From: "Slp" 
Subject: Re: Islam, Sufism, Magic and More!
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:28:18 -0500

As for being simplistic, I agree.  I was using permission in a rather loose

Let's look at the first instance, attempting to control an entity without
permission.  Usually this starts, in the spells that I have seen written
from various ages, with the summoner commanding, and not asking, an entity
to appear or do something for him/her (usually the entity is a god/goddess
from a religion different than the summoners).  He attempts to control the
entity through willpower, or magical instruments/designs, and/or by trying
to impress it by speaking a number of attributes that the summoner has (or
supposedly has) that are supposed to indicate to the summoner that he has
the power or authority to do so (again, a possibly dubious proposition.  If
the summoner actually has the authority and/or power, the entity, if it
actually exists, will be able to perceive that).  Note that in these
instances there is no asking permission of the entity (or anyone else
usually)  either directly or by asking nicely to do something.  The entity
is not allowed(supposedly) to have any say.  Usually in these cases, the
entity is not happy to be there, and if anything goes wrong, will usually
attempt to wreak havoc on the practitioner.  Assuming, for the sake of
argument, that such entities exist.

This kind of thing is usually practiced by people dabbling in the darker
side of magic, or by ignorant practitioners, or those whose ego outstrips
their common sense.

The kind of magic where permission is used, in terms of spells, either is an
invocation whereby the practitioner asks the entity to appear and/or do
something, and offers various pleasant, to the entity, gifts/sacrifices to
appease any anger, or to help it, or to pay for its services, depending upon
the relationship with the entity.  Oftentimes, but not always, the entity in
this case is part of the practitioners religion.
They ask, and it is up to the entity to decide.

The kind of magic that utilizes forces of nature that are not recognizable
by current scientific thought or method technically isn't magic, but is
rather a technology.

With forces of nature however, one does need to be aware of whether or not
one is plugging into a 120 volt outlet or a 240 volt outlet, so to speak.

 The "permissions" in this kind of thing, if we can speak of things like
that, basically apply to whether or not one has the permission to do this
kinds of things, i.e., from a higher authority, whether god/goddess/nature
and tends to be rather tacit and dependent upon more upon individual
circumstances.  For an extreme example, if one attempts to use magic to move
a mountain, and the mountain has not given its permission for you to move
it, and decides that it won't, it won't move.  And if the mountain gives you
permission to move it, but Nature has not given its permission for you to
move it, it may not move either.  If the mountain and the rest of the
universe (and/or god/goddess, depending upon your religious/spiritual
beliefs) give you permission to move it, then it may move, depending upon
how you do it and what your source of power is.  If you are just using
personal power, I suspect it won't move even with all of the permissions.
If one has permission to use forces or power or entities that are stronger
than oneself and of suffiencient magnitude to move the mountain, then the
mountain will move.

Does this help explain my position on it a little better?  Americans and
some other cultures tend to be rather poor at seeking permission and
observing boundaries, which is one reason why I phrase it this way.


"Blue Rajah"  wrote in message
> "Slp"  wrote in message
> news:PN6q7.648$
> > There are basically two kinds of magic.  One where one attempts
> > to control or command or force various entities and powers without
> > permission, and one where one does things by permission.
> This is extremely simplistic.  And wrong.

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races