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To: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.religion.orisha
From: catherine yronwode 
Subject: Iron in Magic (was: Re: Hexes? Magic?)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:08:54 GMT

oiorpata@my-deja.com wrote:
> 
>   Peter  wrote:

> for magical purposes, must be made of *iron*.
> 
> My top quality hexes, potions and spells are all
> made from natural organic ingredients. Natures
> own herbs, water from a sacred well, the
> vibrations of certain gemstones, secret
> incantations, all combined at the correct phase
> of the moon, stirred in a *copper* cauldron, with
> a rowanwood spoon, that I carved myself with the
> crescent knife used to harvest the herbs.
> 
> Iron is a dread, cold metal, and I fear it.

Interesting ... is this fear or distrust of iron in spell-work a common
European-American neo-pagan belief or is it idiosyncratic to you?

In African and African-American folk-magic, the exact opposite is the
case -- a great deal of attention is paid to the sanctity and the
magical powers of iron-smiths and the products of their forges. 

In hoodoo, for instance, horseshoes, nails, needles, and pins are widely
used for magical purposes and even unworked chunks of magnetic iron ore
(lodestone) and sine-sifted iron grit (magnetic sand) have important
roles to play in positive (love, luck, and money) spells.  

Different strokes for different folks, eh? 

cat yronwode 

Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
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From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (Eoghan)
Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.religion.orisha
Subject: Re: Iron in Magic (was: Re: Hexes? Magic?)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 14:28:09 -0400
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
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In article <38F36BB0.5E3B@luckymojo.com>, catherine yronwode
 wrote:

> oiorpata@my-deja.com wrote:
> > 
> >   Peter  wrote:
> 
> > for magical purposes, must be made of *iron*.
> > 
> > My top quality hexes, potions and spells are all
> > made from natural organic ingredients. Natures
> > own herbs, water from a sacred well, the
> > vibrations of certain gemstones, secret
> > incantations, all combined at the correct phase
> > of the moon, stirred in a *copper* cauldron, with
> > a rowanwood spoon, that I carved myself with the
> > crescent knife used to harvest the herbs.
> > 
> > Iron is a dread, cold metal, and I fear it.
> 
> Interesting ... is this fear or distrust of iron in spell-work a common
> European-American neo-pagan belief or is it idiosyncratic to you?
> cat yronwode 


This is in fact a true neologism. It is not common of European folk magic
at all. It comes from literate neopagans tapping into the "myth" of a
bronze age cultural people being afraid of Iron age weaponry. In point of
fact, pretty much everywhere where Bronze age peoples discvovered the
benefits of Iron, they adopted it immediately. It may have its origins in
the folk belief that fairies can be banished by iron - but most European
folk magic makes extensive use of it. 

christian saints of the forge were high level miracle workers and
blacksmiths were magicians just as their African counterparts were.

Eoghan

eballard@sas.upenn.edu

Eoghan Ballard
Center for Folklore & Ethnology
University of Pennsylvania

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From: Christopher Warnock 
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Subject: Re: Iron in Magic (was: Re: Hexes? Magic?)
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    Iron, in traditional, i.e., pre-Enlightenment, (and I'm not talking
about Wicca, either) astrology and magic, was ruled by Mars.

    Cornelius Agrippa in his Three Books of Occult Philosophy (Llewellyn,
1997) at Bk II, Chap.  22 discusses the tables of the planets and says that
Mars has an intelligence to good and a spirit to bad as well as various
Martial characters, "These with Mars being fortunate engraven on an iron
plate or sword, makes a man potent in war, and judgments; and petitions and
terrible to his enemies; and victorious against them." at 318-9.

    The traditional system classified all metals under the seven planets,
though there were certainly disagreements and multiple rulers essentially
the rulerships are as follows: Saturn-Lead, Jupiter-Brass, Mars-Iron,
Sun-Gold, Venus-Copper, Mercury-Mercury, Moon-Silver.

    If one wished a Venus effect, one did a Venus spell with a Venus metal,
herb, perfume, signs & symbols and timing.  A further discussion of these,
with particular reference to the Planetary Hours can be found in my article
on the Planetary Days and Hours in the April/May 2000 Mountain Astrologer.

    Christopher Warnock

P.S. Ogun is the Yoruba god of Iron, War and Smiths.  Robert Farris
Thompson, Flash of the Spirit, pp. 52-7 (Random House, 1983).

catherine yronwode wrote:

> Eoghan wrote:
> >
> > catherine yronwode  wrote:
> >
> > > oiorpata@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > >   Peter  wrote:
> > >
> > > > for magical purposes, must be made of *iron*.
> > > >
> > > > Iron is a dread, cold metal, and I fear it.
> > >
> > > Interesting ... is this fear or distrust of iron in spell-work a
> > > common European-American neo-pagan belief or is it idiosyncratic to
> > > you?
> >
> > This is in fact a true neologism. It is not common of European folk
> > magic at all. It comes from literate neopagans tapping into the "myth"
> > of a bronze age cultural people being afraid of Iron age weaponry. In
> > point of fact, pretty much everywhere where Bronze age peoples
> > discvovered the benefits of Iron, they adopted it immediately. It may
> > have its origins in the folk belief that fairies can be banished by
> > iron - but most European folk magic makes extensive use of it.
>
> Perhaps the writer was simply identifying him- or herself as being of
> "fey" or "fairy" heritage. I have known people who do this, often going
> to great lengths to demonstrate the character of their supposed genetic
> "fairy" heritage, but i did not consider this as a possible root for
> the  post when i asked the question.
>
> > christian saints of the forge were high level miracle workers and
> > blacksmiths were magicians just as their African counterparts were.
>
> Thanks, Eoghan -- i figured i could count on you for some prompt,
> factual background! Is there not someone called Wayland the Smith in
> European folklore, whom some scholars identify as a possible "former
> god" -- or am i off-base? And is not one of the African Orishas also a
> god of the smithy? And are not there hereditary smith-families in West
> Africa, who also are reputed to hold proprietary magical powers?
>
> More facts, please!
>
> cat yronwode
>
> Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
> Lucky W Amulet Archive --------- http://www.luckymojo.com/luckyw.html
> Free Spells Archive ------------ http://www.luckymojo.com/spells.html
>
> Lucky Mojo Curio Co. http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html
>    Send e-mail with your street address to catalogue@luckymojo.com
> and receive our free 32 page catalogue of hoodoo supplies and amulets


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From: eballard@sas.upenn.edu (Eoghan)
Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.religion.orisha
Subject: Re: Iron in Magic (was: Re: Hexes? Magic?)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:04:16 -0400
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
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Ogun is the Yoruba diety of the forge and in the Congo traditions of Cuba
he is associated with Sarabanda. In the old Kingdom of kongo the skills of
smithing were prized as among the highest forms of magic and were
specifically associated, especially in the earliest periods with the
Kingship. 

Similar cults of the smith and the forge can be found throughout West
Africa. Note especially among the Mande. This is also true more broadly
across most of Bantu Africa. The Yoruba gets cited because few in the US
know anything more of African traditions than that, but it is also fairly
exemplary of how the subject is handled in African culture generally.

Of course, in the Irish tradition it is Gabhan Saoghaor and among others
Lughaidh Lamh fhada (Lugh) who is associated with smithing. He is also
known by the honorific Ildanach because when seeking admission to the
royal city at Tara he asked of the King "Do you have a Blacksmith? Yes, we
don't need one." Do you have a whitesmith? Yes, we don't need one." "Do
you have a potter? Yes, we don't need one." etc. Until finally, having
exhausted all the trades, he asked "Do you have someone who is a master of
all these skills? The answer was no and they admitted him because he was
the only person who was skilled in all the arts.

Eoghan

eballard@sas.upenn.edu

Eoghan Ballard
Center for Folklore & Ethnology
University of Pennsylvania

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Subject: Re: Iron in Magic (was: Re: Hexes? Magic?)
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nagasiva yronwode wrote:

> 50000416 IVom
>
> uncertain of the origin:
> >>>>for magical purposes, must be made of *iron*.  Iron is a dread,
> >>>>cold metal, and I fear it.
>

Hello,

The Witches that I studied with, wrote that iron does not radiate
energy, it only absorbs it.

Therefore, they used carpenters nails with some iron content,
bent into a Z shape.

In addition, I learned from studying Bavarian sorcery,
that constructing a magician's wand was traditionally
done using a carbonized piece of wood from a tree,
or using an iron rod, pushed through an hole
in an oak wood dowel.

I speculate that the iron acts as a conduit, and
allows Vril energy to travel through the iron rod,
and oak wood dowel, but does not absorb
much Vril energy.

Jake Kebob

>
> Gardnerian Wiccans of the 'Daoine Sidhe' (they said it was pronounced
> something like 'Day-nuh Shee') coven with which I studied counselled
> the carrying of iron into visualized visits to the Faerie World. I
> gather that they regarded it as a potent weapon one might use against
> the elvenkind and fae folx if they got out of hand or which
> would provide the necessary grounding to the 'waking world' so as
> not to be captured (as being put to sleep forever through the
> importune consumption of proffered food or drink where visiting).
>
> a friend who was, with me, led into the Underworld during this
> semi-initiatory vision thought it was humourous, since we felt
> quite akin to the Good People (I love all these names for the Fae,
> and take it as a sign of the fear that surrounds them on account
> of their variable character). I wrote of my experience in my
> Book of Shadows, found at:
>
>         http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/eldar/bookofshadows.tn
>
> sri catyananda :
> >>>Interesting ... is this fear or distrust of iron in spell-work a
> >>>common European-American neo-pagan belief or is it idiosyncratic to
> >>>you?
>
> I don't think it is too commonly manifested in spellwork, but it
> is a common notion in Neopagan culture amongst those who have ideas
> about fairies, whether or not they identify with them (i.e. if you
> want to encounter fairies either you should take iron with you to
> protect yourself or avoid taking it with you because they will not
> contact you on account of its power and threat).
>
> Eoghan:
> >>This is in fact a true neologism. It is not common of European folk
> >>magic at all. It comes from literate neopagans tapping into the "myth"
> >>of a bronze age cultural people being afraid of Iron age weaponry. In
> >>point of fact, pretty much everywhere where Bronze age peoples
> >>discvovered the benefits of Iron, they adopted it immediately. It may
> >>have its origins in the folk belief that fairies can be banished by
> >>iron - but most European folk magic makes extensive use of it.
>
> catherine yronwode :
> >Perhaps the writer was simply identifying him- or herself as being of
> >"fey" or "fairy" heritage. I have known people who do this, often going
> >to great lengths to demonstrate the character of their supposed genetic
> >"fairy" heritage, but i did not consider this as a possible root for
> >the  post when i asked the question.
>
> some of us do not consider it a genetic thing but instead a
> psycho-spiritual state and/or condition on par with mythology
> portrayed by writers like Tolkien.
>
> >>christian saints of the forge were high level miracle workers and
> >>blacksmiths were magicians just as their African counterparts were.
>
> >Thanks, Eoghan -- i figured i could count on you for some prompt,
> >factual background! Is there not someone called Wayland the Smith in
> >European folklore, whom some scholars identify as a possible "former
> >god" -- or am i off-base? And is not one of the African Orishas also a
> >god of the smithy? And are not there hereditary smith-families in West
> >Africa, who also are reputed to hold proprietary magical powers?
>
> and there's also Vulcan, speaking of beings with pointy ears. ;>
>
> nagasiva
> --
> mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html
> mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/
> emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired


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From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva yronwode)
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50000416 IVom

uncertain of the origin:
>>>>for magical purposes, must be made of *iron*.  Iron is a dread, 
>>>>cold metal, and I fear it.

Gardnerian Wiccans of the 'Daoine Sidhe' (they said it was pronounced
something like 'Day-nuh Shee') coven with which I studied counselled 
the carrying of iron into visualized visits to the Faerie World. I 
gather that they regarded it as a potent weapon one might use against 
the elvenkind and fae folx if they got out of hand or which
would provide the necessary grounding to the 'waking world' so as
not to be captured (as being put to sleep forever through the
importune consumption of proffered food or drink where visiting).

a friend who was, with me, led into the Underworld during this 
semi-initiatory vision thought it was humourous, since we felt
quite akin to the Good People (I love all these names for the Fae,
and take it as a sign of the fear that surrounds them on account
of their variable character). I wrote of my experience in my
Book of Shadows, found at:

	http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/eldar/bookofshadows.tn

sri catyananda :
>>>Interesting ... is this fear or distrust of iron in spell-work a 
>>>common European-American neo-pagan belief or is it idiosyncratic to 
>>>you?

I don't think it is too commonly manifested in spellwork, but it
is a common notion in Neopagan culture amongst those who have ideas
about fairies, whether or not they identify with them (i.e. if you
want to encounter fairies either you should take iron with you to
protect yourself or avoid taking it with you because they will not
contact you on account of its power and threat).
 
Eoghan:
>>This is in fact a true neologism. It is not common of European folk 
>>magic at all. It comes from literate neopagans tapping into the "myth" 
>>of a bronze age cultural people being afraid of Iron age weaponry. In 
>>point of fact, pretty much everywhere where Bronze age peoples 
>>discvovered the benefits of Iron, they adopted it immediately. It may 
>>have its origins in the folk belief that fairies can be banished by 
>>iron - but most European folk magic makes extensive use of it.

catherine yronwode :
>Perhaps the writer was simply identifying him- or herself as being of 
>"fey" or "fairy" heritage. I have known people who do this, often going
>to great lengths to demonstrate the character of their supposed genetic
>"fairy" heritage, but i did not consider this as a possible root for
>the  post when i asked the question.

some of us do not consider it a genetic thing but instead a
psycho-spiritual state and/or condition on par with mythology
portrayed by writers like Tolkien.

>>christian saints of the forge were high level miracle workers and
>>blacksmiths were magicians just as their African counterparts were.

>Thanks, Eoghan -- i figured i could count on you for some prompt,
>factual background! Is there not someone called Wayland the Smith in
>European folklore, whom some scholars identify as a possible "former
>god" -- or am i off-base? And is not one of the African Orishas also a
>god of the smithy? And are not there hereditary smith-families in West
>Africa, who also are reputed to hold proprietary magical powers? 

and there's also Vulcan, speaking of beings with pointy ears. ;>

nagasiva
-- 
mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html
mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ 
emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired