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To: alt.magick
From: (Gnome d Plume)
Subject: Re: Hermetics
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:04:57 GMT

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:51:23 -0600, "AL Zha"  wrote:

>"Gnome d Plume"  wrote in message
>> >>I do have a question about post-H.G.A. attainment as a result of your
>> >>retreat if I may. Do you then teach adherents the necessity of conjuring
>> >>Goetic demons in place of Kabbalistic Arch-Devils in a Abra-Melin
>> >>adaptation?

****I've made it quite clear over the years here and elsewhere that we
do not buy into the orthodox Hebrew Kabbalah's Klippoth concept.
Neither did the Renaissance Rosecrucians for that matter. The levels
of Tarturus described by Dante and other so-called Christians magi
allowed realms for virtuous Pagans (and the Fallen Angels are often
dethroned  Pagan deities). Not so in the Hebrew  Klippoth--except
where the vicious hatred of such deities as Baal and Astarte obviously
transformed them into hideous monsters. The Goetia of the Lemegeton is
structured on a much more tolerant  formula, not on a narrowly
zenophobic klippothic model. This was Steve's Savedow's mistake (IMO)
when he went after his Goetia spirits. He got his klippothic version
all right, but they were worthless as the teachers specified in the
Goetia. They were evil, medieval and gruesome, whereas the Goetia
commands them to appear in "fair and human form."  The major problem
with occultists today---and I'm afraid this includes you---is that
they are not creative or even perceptive. They follow the old texts
slavishly, and they don't bother to think. They don't even study the
philosophies of the ancients in relation to their magick to find out
what prejudices and superstitions influenced their systems. 
       Given your clinging to Abramelin and Klippothic minutia I'm not
at all sure you'd  be comfortable in our modern Hermetic-Pagan system.
We  have advanced in philosophical and psychological terms since the
middle ages. A Renaissance magician like Bruno or Facino might  be
more at home with us. Perhaps you need to grow up by a few centuries?
      Read Francis Yates *Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition*
and then let's talk again. ****

(Big snip)

>Thanks, Gnomey. I am going to buy your books; but before I join your Lodge,
>with all due respect, I need to be convinced you have what I need in
>teaching to become Adept of Rosicrucian's proportions. I've rendered all
>factions meaningless to me. Convince me please.
>AL Zha
**** The kind of magicial students I'm looking for are not people I
can convince of anything. They are those who have arrived  at similar
conclusions and are seeking experienced company along the path.****


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