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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.chaos
From: nocTifer 
Subject: Re: Enochian Magick Revisited
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 08:44:40 GMT

50040729 viii 

om sri catyananda :
> Alexander Mulligan:
>> om sri catyananda :
>>> Alexander Mulligan:
--------------------------------------------------------
>> *Alleged* "angelic language". Whether beings such 
>> as he describes even exist is doubtful.

exist in what sense? as figments of someone's imagination
at least, apparently there is sufficient accumulation 
of experience to have developed societal traditions 
surrounding its facility and purpose. something exists.



> My doubts about Dee's claims spring from other causes 

rivalry with Judaism. might that pit him as a type of Cabalist?
we mentioned the comparisons between Enochian and Qabalism.

>>> My interest in Dee's use of Hebrew linguistic paradigms 
>>> even as he was claiming superiority to the Hebrew language
>>> derives from my broader interest in how magicians belonging
>>> to a dominant social class in a dominating culture tend to
>>> appropriate the magic and religion of subjugated, despised,
>>> and dominated peoples.

beautifully put.
 
> ...possibility [that]...they feel a measure of guilt for the harm 
> their forbears have done, and by exalting the non-political cultural 
> beliefs of those whom they have disempowered, they seek to subtly 
> redress the balance without rocking the political boat. Consider 
> the children of generations of American land-owners who 
> are interested in Native American spirituality.  

Dee guilty regarding Jews and so tries to exalt Judaism 
by saying he did better than Hebrew at spirit-contact??
when does the next Pact begin? :>

>>> Aleister Crowley, having published quite
>>> a lot of anti-Negro and Coloured propaganda, 

I'll grant you that.

>>> urged his followers to study Obeah -- a Jamaican 
>>> system of magical practice that derives from African 
>>> religious and magical principles.

does this mean he was feeling guilty about his treatment of
Jamaicans or Africans, or those by the British, and sought
to exalt the obeah and the wanga as co-equal magic skillsets?
that sounds believable in this case, quite possibly. 

that said, quoting where Crowley's angel is represented 
as communicating with an Egyptian goddess (Nu) and priest 
(whom Crowley was at the time channelling? someone please 
clear up the details :>):

    $ This that thou writest is the threefold book of Law.
    $
    $ My scribe Ankh-af-na-khonsu, the priest of the princes, 
    $ shall not in one letter change this book; but lest there 
    $ be folly, he shall comment thereupon by the wisdom of 
    $ Ra-Hoor-Khu-it.
    $ 
    $ Also the mantras and spells; the obeah and the wanga; 
    $ the work of the wand and the work of the sword; 
    $ these he shall learn and teach.

this appears to be a clear indication that whoever is 
speaking wants the follower to undertake the participation 
in the practice, at least, if not the adoption and control.

what is the context of the command? your contention seems
to be it is a fabrication by Crowley, which is rational.

    $ 
    $ He must teach; but he may make severe the ordeals.
    $
    $ The word of the Law is [ThELEMA].
    $ 
    $ Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look 
    $ but close into the word. For there are therein Three 
    $ Grades, the Hermit, and the Lover, and the man of Earth. 
    $ Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "Liber Al vel Legis" or "Liber CCXX", Aleister Crowley;
     Chapter One, verses 35-40.
    _______________________________________________________
     http://www.luckymojo.com/crowley/220al.txt

might this be an expression (or impersonation) of an Egyptian god 
(Nu) paying tribute to African magical practice in a communication 
heralding the dawning of the New Aeon?

> ...The "wanga" Crowley refers to above is a spell, usually 
> a magical spell tied in a bag, much like a mojo bag in the USA. 

what is the significance of the combination of words here?
what is the focal object of the command? 

    $ Also the mantras and spells; the obeah and the wanga; 
    $ the work of the wand and the work of the sword; 
    $ these he shall learn and teach.

perhaps the usage was generalized. if so, then the obeah
as the African and the wanga as the Caribbean referent 
might be incidental to its comparison to "mantras and spells".

if a 'wanga' is a type of spell, then perhaps obeah was 
considered some kind of comparable to 'mantras'? was his
understanding of these terms this loose, unfamiliar? 
or am I missing something?

amongst other fine descriptions, sri catyananda, you provide:

>> Obeah is the African derived folk magic of Jamaica....

thus both might generalize as a simile of the command 
for liturgies and feats of magical expertise, setting 
in motion the cosmic Current for the next Grand Aeon.

>>> "Scrying" is a good old English word as well. The use of a
>>> scrying tool such as a crystal ball, as in Enochian magic,
>>> or a mirror, as in Paschal Beverly Randolph's system of
>>> clairvoyance, is commonplace. Generations of mages have
>>> found these tools useful. That you claim not to need tools
>>> is all well and good for you, but it appears to me to be
>>> over-reaching to make such claims on behalf of other people.

what other comparable devices have been used in similar
enterprises? black mirrors, shallow bowls of black ink,
balls of obsidian, can't think of many more off the top.
 
>> If they believe they need them, then they need them.

hopeful. :>

y
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.com@nagasiva
nocTifer