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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick
From: Gnomedplume@aol.com (Gnome d Plume)
Subject: Re: Runyon Plagiarized? (was where to start?)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:48:23 GMT

On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:53:52 GMT, nagasiva 
wrote:

>50010808 VI! om Hail Satan! Hail Yes!
>
>"David Cantu" :
>>And here is what is going to happen, or potentially could:  you don't know
>>much of the history here so don't know that Kraig stole portions of the book
>>from one Carol (Poke, Gnome) Runyon's work and that he, Kraig, is mostly
>>chased away when he shows his face here.  
>
>please provide some relevant quotations from each and their copyright
>dating in support of this claim. I haven't heard this charge yet and
>what I saw in Kraig's "Modern Magick" seemed rather conventional
>Thelemic/Golden Dawn such that I wonder what was "stolen".
>
>>But you will not find "truth" in books or tools or any bullshit except your
>>own mind and spirit.  You must learn to discern.  One way of doing this is
>>to take on a model for reality like Kabbalah, or physics for that matter,
>>and learn to see the world from the point of view of this model.  Many new
>>connections and ways of manipulating your inner and outer reality will
>>become more apparent as you go through an interpretive drift toward your
>>chosen model.  Any model will due, and like LSD, the real lesson is not the
>>particular model but the malleability of the world you experience.
>
>sounds like magic is, to you, 'the change of consciousness in conformity
>with will' which Crowley did not accept.
>
>>Now it may or may not be true that there are entities to contact and learn
>>from, and perhaps they can teach you or maybe you can teach yourself how to
>>become enlightened.  Hahahahahahahahahaha, what are Angels and Demons and
>>things that fly about about?
>
>birds?
>
>nagasiva

*******Just to set the record straight on this: I've never accused Don
Kraig of plagiarism. He came close but not over the line. What
happened was this: one of my students had a falling out with
me--mostly instigated by his wife---and, after leaving the O.T.A., he
circulated  a Xerox, Acco binder  "book" in which he briefly explained
the facial reflection/distortion method of Goetia evocation I had
developed back in 1969. He admitted that he was "Revealing" someone
else's "Secret Magick." This was a marginal, underground publication
and the method itself was only presented in one paragraph.  I decided
to ignore it.  Kraig, however, praised it, calling the authors "two
excellent occultists,"  and cited it as his major source for Chapter
Nine in *Modern Magick,*  He then came as close as he dared to showing
exactly how the O.T.A. method was done.
          Just a few months before Kraig's book hit the stands, Carl
Weschecke was anxious to introduce me to Don Kraig at the ABA
convention in Los Angeles. He wanted "To get us together." Kraig was
also ingratiating. He had heard I was working on the G.D. cyphers and
he wanted to give me a copy of McGee's pamphlet version in exchange
for a set of our 7th Ray journals. I agreed.
          A month or so later, his letter arrived with the McGee
pamphlet and a money order for $15.00. I shelved it until I could get
a set of Rays ready for him (some had to be re-copied). In less than a
week his book was out and I had my first look at it.
          I must admit I was furious. I'd been ripped-off and there
was nothing I could do about it. Weschecke had known very well that I
would be furious, and so had Kraig. The ABA courtship was a slimy move
by both of them. I shoved Kraig's  letter with the money order into a
cubby hole and tried very hard to put the whole rotten business out of
my mind.  
         Seven years later, at Pat Zalewiski's urging, I got back to
work on the G.D. cyphers. I used the McGee pamphlet (one of several
versions of the cyphers) as one of my  cross references (It was
available in two copyrighted re-prints), but I still gave Don Kraig
thanks in the acknowledgements to my book for having sent me a copy.
          Carl Wescheke wrote that he liked my book and we a signed a
contract. Everything seemed to be going well with the project at
Llewellyn until Don Kraig circulated a letter to the whole staff
accusing me of "stealing his work," (his exact words!) without
explaining himself further. In other words, he accused me of
plagiarism! I sent a five page letter to Llewellyn detailing the
background of the situation and asking for an apology.
          Kraig tried to justify his accusation by claiming  that he
had  had to "work" to "earn the money" to buy the pamphlet from McGee,
and therefore I had "stolen his work" (I have this incredible
statement over his signature!) ---and of course there was the $15.00
money (which had grown to $25.00 in his mind) that I had also
"stolen". This didn't work very well either because I'd never cashed
it and had managed to find the original buried in my desk.
         The upshot of all this was that Llewellyn dragged their feet
on my book for a year until Darcy Kuntz's version of the cyphers came
out and then used that as an excuse to break their contract. Of course
I had grounds for a lawsuit against Kraig and Llewellyn but suing
authors and their publishers is not a wise thing to do if you are a
writer yourself. 
         So, in my opinion Mr. Kraig is not a very honorable or even 
an honest gentleman, but I can't call him a plagiarist----even though
he certainly called me one. ********

Gnome d Plume
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/welcome.html