|
THE
ARCANE
ARCHIVE |
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.
|
TOP | OCCULTISM | DIVINATION | TAROTTarot's Origins, Mamluk Cards, First Divinations
To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.divination,alt.tarot,alt.magick
From: nagasiva
Subject: Tarot's Origins, Mamluk Cards, First Divinations
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:49:15 GMT
50040718 viii om
cutting to the chase....
Gnome d Plume
#> Tarot was probably "invented" by the Turks. I have a book on a
#> Turkish deck from Fra. Regulus in Istanbul that pre-dates
#> Tarouchi.
#> ..."The Mamluk Playing Cards".....
Glaux:
#># The Mamluk deck is NOT a tarot deck. (Incidentally, there
#># may be more than one Mamluk deck at this point. As far as
#># I'm concerned, "the" Mamluk deck is the one found in the
#># Topkapi museum in Constantinople and first exhibited in
#># 1939.)
#>
#> In this case "Tarot" (in the modern divinatory sense of the term)---
#> ...is a moot point because the original Italian tarocchi deck---
#> was not used for divination--- and neither was the Mamluk deck
#> (see Decker and Dummett 2002:100).
tarotica@jktarot.com (jk):
# Which one was that?
# How do you know that?
his citation was something to the effect of:
The primal mistake [by Mathers in the construction
and in particular the symbolism of his deck with
Moina Mathers] was to attempt an occult
interpretation of the suit cards at all: in so far
as they represent anything, it is not the occult
Forces of the Universe, but the heraldic emblems
of the court of Mamluk Egypt (1250-1517), the
source of the oldest known examples of the
suit-symbols.
--------------------------------------------------
"A History of the Occult Tarot -- 1870-1970",
Decker/Dummett, Duckworth, 2002; p. 100.
==================================================
# ...to grant that Tarot "was a game" and to admit that it wasn't
# "divinatory" doesn't support your assertion that Tarot was
# invented by Turks, does it?
absolute problem pinpointed, thank you very much.
# Has it ever occurred to you that the similarity you are claiming
# is actually much greater between the Mamluk decks and the
# earliest extant European playing cards, which were certainly
# not Tarot cards? .....
that seems likely to me.
# First off, Mamluk cards are the model of European playing card decks,
# and entered Europe, through Spain and Italy, in the 14th century. Tarot
# wasn't invented until the early-mid 15th century, in Italy. Right there
# your theory has a problem.
# I'll be more specific: the 22 trumps are what make a deck Tarot.
some number, sure. and apparently they make a 'Deck With Trumps'.
how did you ascertain that there was only 22 in the earliest decks?
when are you identifying their consolidation as 'Tarot'?
# The addition of this special suit to the already-existing
# standard Italian
# deck (which had been derived from the Mamluk cards) served the
# purpose of adding trumps into game play. Later the special suit was
# dropped in other games using trumps, and one of the small suits
# would be named trumps, usually after some bidding process to
# win the right to name it. But Tarot has always retained the trumps
# suit, both in game play and in occult play.
#
# So one can certainly have many kinds of early European card decks
# influenced directly and wholly by Mamluk decks, but Tarot requires a
# special, non-Mamluk, addition to this, and that addition is Italian in
# origin.
#
# Tarot is therefore an Italian invention, not a Turkish one.
seems confirmed by the same source Poke quotes.
#># See
#># L. A. Mayer: _Mamluk Playing Cards_, ed. by R. Ettinghausen and O.
#># Kurz, E. J. Brill, Leiden, 1971
neato.
thanks for quoting from it too, Jess.
# "Judging from their design, these cards are obviously of Mamluk origin,
# and we shall probably not go wrong in attributing them to the 15th
# century. Their ornamentation has numerous parallels in Cicassian
# decoration, especially in illuminated Egyptian manuscripts."
# ...what "the book" actually claims is that a deck
# of cards, discovered in Turkey, is obviously of Mamluk Egyptian
# origin....
#> I preferred to concentrate on the later frankly divinatory Tarots as
#> they related to the Golden Dawn's system (see my Secrets of the
#> G.D. Cypher MS. 1997:52-54, 127-141).
I like to study that more too, Poke. :>
nagasiva
|
|
Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.
|
|
|
The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
|
interdisciplinary:
geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism:
enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism:
divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion:
buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders:
freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.
|
SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):
|
OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST
Southern
Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo,
including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo
in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an
introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W
Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of
worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred
Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra,
karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred
Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy,
sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum:
practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the
Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic:
illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells,
recipes, and an ordering option
Association of
Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical
diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry
for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender
Freemasonic lodges
Missionary
Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith,
the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service
Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and
history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of
Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the
perspective of the God of this World
Lucky
Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and
magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios:
essays and articles on traditional African American
conjure and folk magic
Aleister
Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an
early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual
Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from
an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic
Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with
a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode
Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous
Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home:
personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva
yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo
Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells,
luck spells, protection spells, etc.
Free Love
Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex
magick, romance spells, and lust spells
Free
Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity
spells, and wealth spells for job and business
Free
Protection Spell Archive: protection spells
against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
Free
Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells
for the lottery, casinos, and races
|
