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'Real' vs. 'Nonhistorical, Intuitive' Meanings

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.tarot
From: (nagasiva)
Subject: Re: 'Real' vs. 'Nonhistorical, Intuitive' Meanings (was Re: Dog in The Fool card?)
Date: 12 May 1997 13:28:36 -0700

49970512 AA1  Hail Satan!

"Jan Tier" :
#># ...considered as somewhat of a secondary use of tarot, i.e., 
#># using tarot as a tool to give a psychic reading, rather than 
#># primarily a tarot reading?
nagasiva :
#> by whom?  by a significant number of tarot readers it would be considered
#> just 'reading the cards'.  by some others it would not....

"Jan Tier" :
#Uh, well... by me, I guess. 

that will depend entirely on your understanding of tarot and how it is
best read as well as your individual skills.

#To clarify my question, it seems to me that if a person was (were?) a
#naturally gifted psychic, 
I'm sorry, but I don't really know what this term means.  you and jk are
using it, but is so thrashed by modern newagers and the 'psychic community'
that I don't really understand it in use within magical forums.  if you
could say more about what distinguishes a 'psychic' from a 'tarot reader'
and what you think a 'psychic' does, I'd enjoy that.  thanks.

#they would be able to give a reading using tarot
#as a tool, but only as their personal taste would dictate. To follow this
#chain of thought, the particular tool used (crystals, Ouija board, tarot
#cards, personal item belonging to querant, whatever) would just be a
#personal preference; the reader would be using the tool as a channel, per
#se, and would use tarot as a springboard for their own intuitive gifts.

I don't understand 'using the tool as a channel'.  channel for what?  my
impression is that skilled tarot readers use the deck as a language of
symbol-sets which they cast and interpret as regards the issue in question,
at times using traditional associations and at times using their own or a
combination of the two.  these tools are better described as 'mirrors',
however, than as 'channels' or 'springboards', since the cards are given
their configuration via an unconscious process and read (despite what jk
or others claim) while reflecting on the matter at hand.

#I am hoping through my studies to learn to read tarot; 

#...I am hoping to learn (through the study and
#interpretation of the symbols) to be able to read tarot effectively. 

when you say this, contrasting it with your words above, what do you
mean, precisely?  perhaps you can answer this so that I can understand
jk.  studying and interpeting the symbols is STUDYING tarot, it isn't
reading the cards except in a nonconventional meaning.  perhaps this is
what jk is getting at ('reading the keys of the ancients').  very
interesting, if so, but not a typical understanding of how tarot cards
are utilized for divination.

#I am somewhat intuitive, but would not consider myself a psychic or 
#particularly gifted in that area. 

what area?  what does a 'psychic' do?  divination is a skill which anyone
can learn.  it does not require the assimilation to a traditional system
of symbols, but this can deepen and enhance one's language-set.

#of the books I have read on the subject appear to assume that their reader
#*is* psychic, to me, anyway. 

really?  could you elaborate here?  what did the books presume you were
able to do that you were not?  could you suggest some of the books which
gave you this impression?

#I have tried, with dismal results, the
#recommended meditation practices ("enter" the card, etc.) and pretty much
#given up on that route.

"enter" the card?  could you elaborate?  as in 'put yourself into the main
character of the card and come to understand how this relates to the matter
at hand'?

#At any rate, if the use of tarot and great psychic ability must go hand in
#hand, I shall be most discouraged.

I don't see that the skills necessary for conventional tarot card reading
are all that obstructory, perhaps you need to start by reading for yourself,
being quite specific about the issue you wish reflective orientation.  then
take up some book (any book, since you seem to like them) and get some
inspiration as to what the symbols could mean.  this is, I presume, what
my Mystress was talking about as regards 'learning someone's system', tho
one needn't proceed this way.  one could begin cold or with playing cards,
or create one's own symbol-set.

I find it best to choose sources which I like, which I find convincing.  
this may have included some of the traditional sources, especially those 
which come from the artists or designers of the decks in question 
(Crowley on Thoth, for example).  or it may not (e.g. I enjoy Newman 
or Pollack on the Smith-Waite/Harris-Crowley decks and their children).


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