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Keys 8/11, Resonances and Scales

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.tarot,alt.divination,alt.religion.wicca
From: nagasiva 
Subject: Keys 8/11, Resonances and Scales
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:14:16 GMT

50031015 viii om

Caliban  asks Sir Brax:
#>  ...where you stand on the numbering of Justice and Strength.

this seems to be associated only with a particular lineage of
attributions (wherein the Sefer Yetzira is involved) and very
specifically where Levi and the GD afterward adopted and 
manipulated it.

#> Do you support the assignments of 11 to Strength and 8 to
#> Justice, or vice versa? I believe that the correct assignment 
#> of these numbers can make a difference in how the book is used.
#> Personally, I believe there are sound reasons for 11 to be 
#> assigned to Justice and 8 to Strength that the other 
#> configuration misses out on. What's your opinion?

a challenging conundrum to be sure! my aesthetic sensibility
*supports* your contention about L-JUSTICE-XI-22 & I-WILL-VIII-19
Trumps, though I find myself paying less and less attention 
to the Roman Numerals and more to the Key Scales, after Crowley.

"Sir Brax":
# ...our most Known and Old version of the Tarot IS the
# Marseille deck. It could be that the Marseille is The first
# "materialization" of the Tarot itself, since no one had ever 
# found a more ancien Tarot that these one....

yes, I've heard this story before. I'd thought it more legend.

# ...In this deck, justice is the 8th Arcana, Strenght is 
# the 11th...
# So, I first took that as a ...fact, before any further 
# meditation about the arcanas itself who lead to decode 
# the meaning of them.
# Now, eight is a value of equilibrium, since this is the 
# first cubical value at all too.

2x2x2=2^3 is more mobile and fluctuating than a prime 11.
this is part of a larger composite symbolizing change in
Yijing (2x2x2 x 2x2x2)

# The Egyptians took the eight as a value of Cosmical 
# order...and the 'rota" have eight nave.

yeah, even the Buddhists have 8-spokes on their wheels.
even the *Chayaots* do!! now the Silver Star People have
septagrams, as does Dee working. is there something more
wheel-like about 8s? there's that double-square in the
Middle-East too. very lovely.

# The justice in the Major arcana is a underneath meaning 
# of the Karma, the law of causality...

there's that Buddha-thing. ;>

# And, If you take all name from the first card to 
# the seventh, you have only people and things...
# The Magician, the Popesses, the  Imperatrix, The
# Emperor, the Pope, the lover, the Chariot... 

exceptions of which I can think:

        'the lover' is often Choice or Lovers and
         usually has *2* (or 3) figures on it, at
         times given over to focus on Cupid/Eros.

	'the Hermit' is also arguably a person,
         though you say he symbolizes a virtue.
         even 'the Devil' could be called a person.

# but the 8th is the first virtue : justice.
# The the Next one is the 11th : Strenght. ;;;
# The thirth virtue is the 14th : Temperance.

some gaming decks have virtues like the famous 
Faith, Hope, and Charity on them. the Tarocchi
of Mantegna, for example, has a bunch (see below).

# 8 + 11 + 14 = 33.....a ternary is clearly 
# [implied] here.
# The first virtue needed to evoluate is justice(Balance), 
# next Strenght, and at last...Temperance. 
# The fourth virtue : prudence is not clearly attribuate
# to any card.... some say, 

d00d, check out the Tarocchi of Mantegna (1470), page 39 
of Kaplan's Encyclopedia v1. it has the following cards:

	B (31-40) -- Cosmic Principles

	XXXI Iliaco (Genius of the Sun)
	XXXII Chronico (Genius of Time)
        XXXIII Cosmico (Genius of the World)
        XXXIIII Temperancia (Temperance)
        XXXV Prudencia (Prudence)
        XXXVI Forteza (Fortitude)
        XXXVII Justicia (Justice)
        XXXVIII Charita (Charity)
        XXXVIIII Speranza (Hope)
        XXXX Fede (Faith)
         "The Encyclopedia of Tarot", by Stuart Kaplan, 
          [v1] U.S. Games Systems, Inc., 1978; p. 39.

# and i can understand it, that you can found out a close 
# meaning by the Hermit...

very reasonable. what about *Chastity*? isn't the Monk
usually associated with the zodiacal sign of VIRGO?? :>

# there is another reason to have the Arcanas in these..
# progressions. A Path, where each Arcana is a step, and 
# each step prepare to the next step.

sefirotic trees allow for this kind of progress-model.
that's one reason I can see focussing on the Key Scale
numbers as compared to Roman Numerals --> it may prove
an emphasis on developmental stages or steps. thanks!


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