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To: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.occult
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva)
Subject: Re: (O) Gematria and Other Systems of Numerology
Date: 14 Dec 1998 16:35:03 -0500

49981214 IIIom

I'd like to review this individual's post as it presents a few
commonplace (and unsubstantable) claims of kabbalists and mages.

in Usenet, "occult"  writes:
# ...stay away with the attempts of gentile europeans to enterpret
# a thoroughly Jewish system.  This includes Crowley and Eliphas Levi.  

while the history of kabbalah (cf. Scholem for a decent overview) is
such that it does appear (esp. by this name) to have been a Jewish
mystical construct, the discussion of the numerolinguistic systems
of divination prevalent within Hermetic history which have been at
least in part *inspired* by this body of work (Luria et al) should
include those who contributed to it.  this does indeed include such
individuals (however unreliable they may be at history, citation or
even composition) as Aleister Crowley and Eliphas Levi.

note that we are here dealing with the historical and Hermetic
cultures, not with the Jewish (or arguably many other cultural)
mystics from whom these Hermeticists have been inspired.  it is
as rational to say that one should go to the sources for Jewish
kabbalah as it is to say go to the sources for Hermetic qabalah.
dismissing the more modern on account that it was inspired by an
older body of work is ridiculous, however.


# If you really want to learn the nuances of qabalah go straight 
# to the source.

this could be interpreted in a number of ways.  some will contend
that going to other HUMANS is just taking a detour.  the source,
these will contend, is the DIVINE, and so unless one can see their
way to identifying the divine with these humans (a common practice
among the pyramid-schemers ;>), if one has a satisfactory route
to the divine, THIS ought be the preferred source on QBL.

barring this, one's taste and notions on what QBL is, where it
comes from, who are its primary authorities, what it should be
used to achieve (if anything), etc., will determine one's best
approach to the subject.

the writer to whom I am responding here is talking about Jewish
kabbalah, a body of diagrams and ideas which are associated with
a longstanding tradition of writings and mystics.  these are 
indeed identifiable, and writers like Scholem have performed
a helpful service by analyzing their basics for us to pursue if
we have further interest.  one may also find social connections
online to mystical lineages (of variable quality no doubt) that
presume to afford an instruction on kabbalah in its modern form.

whether this person intends such a thing or not, many 
occultists have been bitten by QBL-fundamentalism in which they
assert that nothing other than Jewish kabbalah is the 'real
thing'.  this continues an unresolved dispute between Jewish
and Hermetic (the latter often Christian in character at its
greatest extreme, often syncretic at its best) mystics as regards
what is the 'real' QBL (a term I use to designate the whole of
kabbalistic/Jewish, qabalistic/Hermetic/Christian, and 
cabalistic/New Age/popular types, with no necessary cultural
limitation of which I am aware).


# After that, move on to the europeans who attempt, via their own 
# culture and limited knowledge of Judaism, to intepret it.
# Not that european qabalists aren't fine individuals.

this is quite possible.  it is also the case that europeans have
merely created their own *style* of qabalah in the manner that
Christianity was created out of Judaism or Buddhism was created
out of the Hindu milieu.  these will necessarily be pioneering
works, perhaps not always with the benefit of the genius that
obtained in the Jewish originals.  I would submit, however, that
differences or misunderstandings of Jewish kabbalah may serve
to allow very interesting variations which simultaneously 
depart from and fashion new constructions aside from their 
Jewish precursors.
 

# Second, learn the Hebrew alphabet.  Gematria is intended for use 
# with the hebrew alphabet, 

this is less and less the case as the term 'gematria' is applied
for usage in any linguistic context which allows a defined set
of alphabetics.  it is my understanding (and I would like to hear
with citation from those who disagree) that the Jews did not
originate the concept of gematria -- that Sumerians or Babylonians
or others preceded them.  the term 'gematria' itself does not
appear to be Jewish, resembling the term 'geometry' more than it
does any cognate word of which I am aware and establishing a very
imaginative and mystical linkage (however unsubstantiatable)
between numbers, the Pythagorean and other mysticism which attends
to these, and letters, which have been so important to so many
early cultures that influenced at least the 'western' world (as 
well as some parts of the 'East'; cf. Sanskrit).

I therefore contend that Hebrew-centrism where gematria is
concerned is a mere fundamentalism which need not be regarded
seriously aside from those who are tradition-bound or who find
the history of the practice to be important to their studies.
one might as well start with one's *own* language (this is my
own preference, as this is what Jews and others did ;>) and 
proceed from there.


# which is considered to be so sacred by some qabalists that,
# for example, the first seven letters of the alphabet are believed 
# to have brought into existence the seven relative directions 
# of space (up, down, left, right, above, below, and center).  

this I would describe as a conflation of numerical and symbolico-
historic origination that is a part of very many mystical systems
quite transcending the Jewish culture (cf. Taoists and their ideas
about the various Taos (?-0-1), Yin and Yang (2), the Elements (5),
and the 10000 Things (infinity)).  the correlation between numbers
and mythology (mystical or no) is not unique to the Jewish, and 
qabalistic progressions and identifications of number/letter and
origination-scheme may also be found described in the works of
Hermetic occultists (however less ancient they may be).


# If you're going to use roman letters, just study plain old 
# western numerology.

there is no reason to perpetuate a stark divide between the
numerological systems devised and promulgated by expositors 
such as Agrippa and other europeans and qabalah.  it is only
a classist and elitist 'hi/lo magic' mentality which breeds

it, from what I can see, and I aim to forge them securely
together into a modern version which draws from all sides.

 
# ...you'll have to get out of digital mode.  Qabalistic numerology is
# not digital.  Our arabic number system has a radix of 10.  In other 
# words, we write numbers using 10 symbols (the digits '0' - '9') in 
# various combinations.  Qabalistic numerology is not digital but 
# additive.  Qabalah uses symbols for "10", "20", "100", "200", etc.  
# The symbols (which double in function as the Hebrew alphabet) are 
# added to each other in a non-exponential fashion, much like with the 
# Roman numeral system.

in the strict sense this is quite true on account of the cultural
divide between Hebrew and English languages, yet there is no reason
that this places one system (that which arises within a culture
that apparently identifies these numbers and letters) in a more
exalted position with respect to another (as that which doesn't
or merely has to be seen this way; note that 'A' in English is
often used as a 'top quality' or 'best performance' and that this
can be translated quite easily, see my _Liber Gematria_:

   http://www.hollyfeld.org/Esoteric/Avidyana/Plebe/l.gematria.fn

on for an example here, roughly constructed though it may be).

for this reason I say that one may also construct a 'cyber-QBL'
(nobody's come up with a differentiating name for it yet, though
I suggest 'ckabala' ;>) in which some bit- or ASCII-association schema
produces the numerolinguistic evaluation table.  it has certainly
been suggested many many times and in a variety of different ways
(say, taking the common ASCII values as they stand in the 
computer industry, or using the columnar linkage in a QWERTY or
DVORJAK keyboard -- QWERTY: 1:qaz; 2:wsx; etc.), but none of these
has seized the fascination of modern mages.

no, I think that this is a mistake of evaluating the MEDIUM for
the information rather than the language.  we might as well say
that English cannot be used since the culture which uses this
language doesn't conventionally identify its letters with its
numbers, or that they haven't been used in this numerative,
transferrable manner.  the transition to cyberspace is merely
the usage of a medium to *speak* this language, just as Hebrew
can be typed and spoken 'here'.

what seems more important to me is to ask why the values of
500-900 should be considered seriously if they aren't actual
letters in the Hebrew system (being final usages of letters
already described), rather than omitted on the basis that
they were additions in order to obtain the numbers 500-900.

if we allow this numerical 'fix', then we might also wish to
ask whether a Romanized version should contain sufficient
'letters' (or unusual usages of letters and/or letter
combinations) so as to flesh out the system to 900 (in the
system I have rediscovered and elaborated upon elsewhere,
a single addition).


# ...if you really want to understand qabalah, my 
# recommendation is that you don't try to westernize it, 
# but rather easternize yourself!

and I say transcend this silly dualism, assimilate the various
types of QBL, and settle into whatever system or lack thereof
that you prefer!  this be a globe, after all, not a rational
East-West orientable duality. ;>

blessed beast!
=========================================================================
nagasiva -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com; http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/
cc replies to me if this was read in Usenet.  replies may be posted.
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