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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.divination,alt.magick,alt.occult,talk.religion.misc
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (hara)
Subject: Gematria and Its Uses
Date: 28 Feb 1998 19:04:29 -0800

49980126 aa2 Hail Satan!  

[wished to remain anonymous:
# From IR's introduction to 777:  
# "As a method it [the practice of Gematria]
# reminds me somewhat of the mysteries surrounding the usage of the 
# koan in the Rinzai sect of Zen.  It seems at first sight nothing 
# but perfect nonsense, this taking liberties with names and letters 
# and numbers.  But in point of fact, just as the koan is a 
# meaningful but not necessarily rational statement made from a 
# mystical level of consciousness, so also it may be used to 
# induce a similar type of illumination in the determined
# student who uses it.  Depending on the spiritual state of the reader,
# Gematria will be perceived either as nonsense of the most grotesque
# description, or it will awaken some simulacrum of the mystical state
# originally experienced by its writer."
# 
# To begin, then, Gematria can be employed in communication.

quite possible, though koans aren't always meaningful or
employed for communication.


# One finds gematric analyses throughout AC's work; and it seems that 
# IR would hold that the reader's apprehension of such analyses will 
# depend upon "the spiritual state of the reader," which phrase I 
# don't think it necessary to understand as "grade" or "level of 
# attainment" when "attitude" or "orientation" can work just as well.  

I'd never considered so dissecting an analysis previously.  it seems
to me that a 'spiritual state' can be engaged which has nothing to
do with one's grade or more permanent level.  very interesting.


# So understanding attitude:  it is either from a rational point of 
# view or from a superrational point of view that one may approach, 
# for example, "Theta or Teth, has the value of Nine, which is that 
# of AVB, the Secret Magic of Obeah".
# 
# Judged from a completely rational point of view, such a statement 
# seems to be gibberish, or a schizophrenic combination of unrelated 
# ideas, or to be the sort of idea which "accordingly appears to the 
# vulgar as fable, parable, legend, even creed."....

not if one understands the premise of gematria.  then it becomes a
very meaningful (if unconvincing) statement of magical, mystical,
metaphysical and/or psychological relation.


# And, from a completely rational point of
# view, such a statement really is one or all of these things, for there
# isn't a rational relationship between the letter T and AVB; one is a
# letter, a sign representing a sound and number, the other is a word,
# representing a thing or an idea.

except that the letter T is *given* (or previously had) a
a significance which can be compared with the combination AVB,
equally meaningful, if otherwise presumed separate and unrelated.
 

# But from an irrational point of view, that this statement makes 
# sense is an assumption one has to make at the beginning:  
# "since this makes sense, what does it mean?"  With this 
# assumption, be it recognized by the reader or not, he has 
# discharged rationality, has let go of "AB does not equal C," or
# "I can see this, so it exists; I can't see that, so it doesn't."  
# To make this assumption is to stop looking with the eyes of 
# reason and to start looking with other eyes.

like those of the imagination.  often qabalists fabricate these
kinds of connections after having discovered numerical equations.
sometimes this goes on to become tradition and a kind of self-
fulfilling prophesy or mystical 'proof' employed in order to
win over skeptics reading the author's text.

 
# ...as "All advance in understanding demands the acquisition of 
# a new point-of-view", so is such an assumption a step toward
# some kind of understanding.
# 
# But what order of "understanding" or, better "useful 
# experience"?  In my view, the following principle is the same 
# that is at work with Gematria:
# the "peculiar mental excitement required may be aroused by 
# the perception of the absurdity of the process, and the 
# persistence in it..."  As is this: "The mind is the great 
# enemy; so, by invoking enthusiastically a person whom we 
# know not to exist, we are rebuking that mind."  To assume 
# something irrational, such as the premises of Gematria, 
# is to sheathe the sword of reason, and to loosen the bolts 
# of the gate des Jenseits, d'au-del_.  To assume something 
# irrational is to invite the irrational.

in a way I agree, but as I said above I don't think that your
claims about gematria's irrationality are meaningful outside
a very particular significance (e.g. Western scientism).  
perhaps you are being very specific and I'm being dull.


# In an earlier post, Nigris made a statement to the effect that "any
# language can be made magical or discovered to be magical."  Such a
# statement cannot be demonstrated, cannot be rationally proven; 

one has only to examine how 'magical languages' have become so in
order to see the truth of the assertion.  some might be more
difficult than others, depending on the people who are attempting
to use it as such and the nature of the language in question.


# but to assume such an undemonstrable idea, to accept it, is in 
# fact prerequisite to making a language magical, or discovering 
# that one is.  I would contend that the same principle is at work 
# with Gematria; it is after all not demonstrable that words and 
# phrases are mystically connected via numerical values, 

it seems fairly clear that it HAS been demonstrated that they
CAN be (the 93/Thelema/Agape comes to mind), though of course
I think this is typically done after the fact or with a batch
of supportive construction after the relationship has been
discovered.

as with divination systems of any sort, we can enter into a
mystical reverie and begin to understand the phenemena around
us as communications from Elsewhere (God, the unconscious,
our Holy Guardian Angel, the Daemon, etc.), and yet observed
otherwise these phenemena would have about as much original
relevance as did the happenstance enumerations (which were
futzed with to no end by irritated QBLists! -- "oh a stray
1 added here or there is of no importance!") of the Jewish
language -- that is absolutely none to be found.  only the
religious or fanatics seem to go beyond this and postulate
the necessity of something more than oracular consciousness
and the immersion of the conscious into the unconscious,
projecting significance onto what could just as well be
called 'random' phenomena (identical to how many tarot
readers engage their art).

perhaps this makes me a 'rational critic of gematria', and
yet I think there is enough evidence to support an assertion
that most gematria is reverse-engineered after the fact
through expository argumentation and creative philosophy. 
what is 'discovered' becomes the foundation of a philosphic
construct that, absent an historical overview, provides the
appearance of mystical design (but is really tautological).


# but, to see a mystical connection between them, it is necessary 
# to assume that there is one.  To see something irrational, one 
# must begin in assuming that the irrational exists.  (Yes, it 
# is circular, isn't it?)

with this I must respectfully disagree.  I have for years doubted
any such mystical connection and yet have discovered all manner
of them in the cosmos around me (or rather constructed them in
reflection of the patterns I was finding).  the state of mind
in which I would sometimes see these connections was not in any
way presumptive of a Grand Design or a necessary cosmology, in
fact I'd say it was usually devoid of intellectual presumption.


# Having done so, one has also aligned oneself with the writer 
# of such a thing as "Theta or Teth, has the value of Nine, 
# which is that of AVB, the Secret Magic of Obeah"; one has in 
# a sense put oneself in the same state of mind as he who wrote 
# it.  Having done so, one looks for what he means by the 
# statement, and does so using not rationality, but 
# irrationality, a different part of being.  In this way 
# something irrational, it having been encoded in writing, can 
# be apprehended by the reader.  "Who has ears, let her hear."

the apprehension of any perspective requires that we place
ourselves in some part of the mindset of the speaker, to at
least parse the language if nothing else.  is it so surprising
that, having entertained the mystical assertion of a connection 
between two objects, that we might understand it and therefore
begin to maintain its intellectual viability?  

I suspect (probably foolishly) that the typical mystic who was
(is?) fond of gematria as an indication of the truth of some
metaphysical assertion was ignorant enough that a *description* 
of such a relationship constituted, for hir, a demonstration 
of this fact (especially if it arose in the context of an
instruction by the kabbalah master).  religious persuasion
can be very insidious.  the question is whether there are other
indicators beyond the assertions that prove the point.  

very often (with Crowley, Grant, and the few Jewish kabbalists 
I have perused) it seemed to me that their argument was not in
the least assisted by their appeal to gematria, it was just
elaborated, as if they could say "see?  even the god of this
language says so by virtue of the enumeration!"  perhaps
needless to say I did not find their assertions convincing,
and even found them quite tedious in the case of Grant.

it strikes me as just so much trickery, since the author could
have projected the entire argument in reflection of the specific
correspondences she may have discovered.  nothing more than the
correspondence itself carries convincing weight in my eyes --
the gematria is just a lattice with which the mystic is attemping
to bolster hir assertions and nothing more in these cases.
 
now if the assertions were AGE-OLD, or at least constructed LONG
before the discovery of the correspondence, then this would be
more convincing.  it is THIS usage of gematria (as a means of
confirming a variety of mystical or unconscious appearances)
which strikes me as the most persuasive.  it was for this reason
that I was so struck by the connection (however faint) between
the name 'nigris', the character of Choronzon, and the number 333.

Crowley suggests using gematria many times in the 'confirmation'
of the identity of various spiritual intelligences (as you have
noted also).  we can add up the names we have obtained in 
reverie, total the passwords they provided, and compare and 
contrast the supposed or even predesignated (through ritual 
symbolism) symbol-set with the enumerations we did not 
preconstruct before the right but that came through the entity 
when we asked them for proof of their reliability.  it is a 
kind of sounding system of the unconscious mind.

 
# Enumeration of uses discussed so far:  Gematria can ignite, 
# or cause to be put into use, the irrational by its rebuking 
# the rational and by its very invitation of the irrational.  
# This involves an undemonstrable assumption.  Afterwards, a 
# writing employing Gematria can communicate to the reader
# something irrational.
# 
# A further use, this one creative.  In designing a ceremony, 
# the magician can or ought to arrange his temple, weapons, and 
# words so that the experience of the ceremony excites the 
# aspect of being which is the ceremony's aim.  The words 
# employed may have been or ought to have been invented or 
# chosen by the operator toward this specific end; having
# designed or chosen words whose numerical values, summing up 
# to the value of some other word or set of words, are 
# consonant with the end, their use in rite can or will excite 
# the operator even toward that end.  In this sense, Gematria 
# can be employed in a kind of creative association.  "As I aim
# toward one-pointedness, I employ the number 91, with which 
# is associated Kether as Achad, unity, and hence it is for the 
# numerical equality of his name that I invoke the god AMN."  
# The word AMN can or will in such a case accordingly excite the 
# aimed-for aspect of being.

beautiful, yes.  archivable so I leave it here, along with the
bulk of that below.


# A further use, still dependent on the assumption of the 
# interconnection of words and phrases through like numerical 
# values, is in testing the veracity or authenticity of 
# statements made by envisioned entities or of statements
# issued by a voice-medium.  One demands that the entity name 
# itself; later, one calculates the value of the entity's name 
# to see with what other words it numerically corresponds.  

as I mentioned above, yes.


# This provides an objective, albeit irrational, method of 
# checking the entity's credentials.  (The actual objective,
# independent existence of the entity need not be presently discussed.)

I don't see how this is irrational except in the manner of its
derivation.  I can explain how and why the unconscious mind
might be capable of arriving at significant sums or words of
specific and meaningful enumeration.  what seems MORE
important to me is that this type of post-ritual description
can be used to FAKE a confirmation.

I could easily have discovered BEFOREHAND that 'nigris' added
through some gematric system to 333, thereafter constructing
some sort of false belovedness of Choronzon and adopting the
black motto.  constructing a text which included the reference
to this confirmation (as have many mages inclusive of Crowley),
I could have included this as a testimony of my adeptship.

the important point it seems to me is that the mage (and perhaps
hir intimates) are the only ones who will be able to skeptically
presume this testimony outside religious faith).  this seems to
be the case for many if not all instances of synchronicity.
 

# A further method of Gematria is the creative connection of like 
# words in order either to communicate to, or discover for, 
# oneself something previously not realized, or to communicate 
# something already known to another.  Hence the use of the 
# statement "Theta or Teth, has the value of Nine, which is that 
# of AVB, the Secret Magic of Obeah," or "MShICh, Messiah, and 
# NChSh, the serpent of Genesis.  The dogma is that...."  Both
# statements will have been generated by the first process 
# described in this paragraph; both have been recorded in order 
# to communicate something to others.  "Who has ears, let her hear."

as you may have already deduced, I'm not sure that this is really
different from the first you mentioned, aside perhaps from a
difference of context.  in fact you mentioned the communication
aspect initially.

 
# But tell me this:  who is it who has "exploded" the premise 
# of Gematria bzw. Hebrew Qabalah?  And by "the premise," is 
# one still to understand, "the universe is made up of letters"?

this is in reference to the Wizard's testimony, and I cannot
truly answer as to the this explosion. :>  I do think that
ONE premise (esp. of magick associated with gematria) is that
the cosmos is constructed of the aleph-beth, however.

 
# As to this last statement, so far no one on this list has 
# shown this not to be so, not even Nigris, whose words to 
# the effect that "letters are not generally considered to 
# be substance" are in my view not entirely relevant, for 
# by my understanding the universe is also not entirely 
# composed of "substance."

well put.  and yet you have failed to capture the final
conclusion of my dispute, which was that letters and the
cosmos are generally (unless by other supposition which
I'm sure some mystics would have employed) considered to
be of two different CATEGORIES.  thus by *conventional*
standards to say 'the cosmos is constructed of letters'
is ludicrous outside a further explanation as regards
consciousness and the importance of the alphabet to its
arising.

 
# Nor are letters "patterns."  Letters represent something, 
# hence, depending on the language involved, either a sound 
# or an idea.  

what a wonderful conversation.  now this is more like I
enjoy in an explosion of gematria! (;>)  moving to my Bible
(Am Her Dic) for citation, I notice that it defines a letter
as "a written symbol or character [that is a discernable
pattern] representing a speech sound and being a component
of an alphabet."  thus letters are simultaneously a pattern
and a symbol, as you say, representing a sound or, at least
with some aleph-beths, an idea.



# In the language of Qabalah, 

no small assertion!!!


# letters, as they represent ideas, can be and indeed are 
# taken as symbols, and to a symbol one can associate whatever 
# ideas one likes.

other languages could and do exhibit this same quality, or
(as I intend to create over my rough English skeleton) could 
be created after the fact for the purposes of similar usage.


# Following the association, the letter may be used as a kind 
# of short-hand representation of the other thing, with the 
# symbolic character of the letter having become transparent, 
# with the result that one sees through it directly to what 
# is meant by it.  In this way, one can say, "Yod is Fire,
# and Fire is a constituent element of the universe.  Yod is 
# a constituent element of the universe."
# 
# In this manner, one can say, "the universe is composed of 
# letters," and actually mean something by it.

except that you have already presumed that the letters mean
specific things, alone, not comprising the entirety of the
universe.  I can still only see the generalized application.
 

# And since this is a convention, a definition, a dogma, it 
# is useless to say something like "It is false that the 
# universe is composed of letters."  The only recourse is to 
# either understand what such a statement means, 

which I have attempted above.


# or to show where an alternative definition provides a more 
# convenient, and thus more effective, definition of "what 
# the universe is made of."  (And this is not to deny that 
# there are in fact better definitions.)

'made out of' usually (at least to the last 2000 and more
years of physicalist science) implies that one can peer
into the cosmic substrate through technical means and see
that it is composed of a certain thing.  we say that 'the
cosmos is composed of energy' on account of the presumption
that objects (rather than space which we account as nothing)
are configurations of "energy" and can be seen as such.

in this light we have not yet been able to peer into the
material of objects and determine that they are constructed
of "letters" unless by this term we mean something very
unusual and peculiar (which would require explaining).

 
# ...it is of no use to say to a German that his language 
# is gibberish out of ignorance of it, or to point out to him that
# some "premise" behind his language has been "exploded," 
# telling him that it doesn't work, informing him of one's 
# incredulity at his continued use of it.  

with this I of course agree, though I think that there was a
paradigm-clash going on when the Wizard critiqued what he
considered a mystical (or possibly psychological as I have
otherwise rendered) assertion from an apparent material perch.

blessed beast!
hara
-- 
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); 408/2-666-SLUG
http://www.abyss.com/tokus       FUCK       http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi