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TOP | OCCULTISM | DIVINATION | NUMEROLOGY | GEMATRIAEnglish Gematria: History
To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.divination
From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva yronwode)
Subject: English Gematria: History (was Crowley, 93 and Divination (was can magick)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:00:56 GMT
50000612 Vom
hara:
>> Romanized (or Roman) applies to the letters
jake :
>just out of interest the following note from the EQ-list archives is
>worth further digging:
>
>Bel Murru writes:
>>93 -
>>I have been informed by a reliable source that the first listing of the
>>letters of the alphabet in their modern order is 1806, Noah Webster's
>>"Compendious Dictionary of the English Language."
>>This is far later than I had imagined. Anyone else surprised?
>>Bel Murru
>>__
that's the jake I know and love!
>one thing this suggests is that a reordering of the alphabet on
>Classical (Latin) models may well have occurred at a late stage. My
>opinion remains that Runic probably played as large a role in the
>shaping of the English alphabet as Latin.
>
>This role was likely suppressed by the Romano-centric clergy. An effect
>reinforced by the equally Romano-centric apologists for the British
>Empire, who liked to pose as a successor to the Romans.
hmm, does it make a difference if a source (reliable?) says:
Most cultures today use an alphabet with individual letters joined
together to form words. Many of these - including Vietnamese,
Indonesian, French and English - are based on the Roman alphabet.
Alphabets vary in length. The longest one is khmer, from Cambodia; it
uses 74 letters. The shortest is from the Soloman Islands; rotokas uses
only 11 letters.
The Roman alphabet used only capital letters; small letters were
introduced after the eighth century. In the English language, capital
letters are used at the beginning of a sentence and for the first letter
of a name. They are also used when words are abbreviated, or shortened,
to their first letters, such as UN for United Nations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://public-library.calgary.ab.ca/srg99/writoday.htm
or that my dictionary says that an alphabet is
a set of letters or other characters with which one or
more languages are written, especially if arranged in a
customary order.
I see this continues to support your thesis, so I'll go and
get a resource from my on-site library to confirm or oppose this
exciting notion about Roman letter-order.
damn, this is a difficult issue to parse! here's he first quote
I may render:
The opening scene of the English language as a separate
and distinct entity can... be placed in the great
Germanic fifth century, but it was not until the
beginning of the seventh that the language definitely
emerged from the confusion and turmoil of the conquest
of Britain and began to take its place among the nascent
modern tongues of Europe.
-------------------------------------------------------
"The Story of English", Mario Pei, J.B. Lippincott,
1952; pp. 21-2.
_______________________________________________________
and if we accept that an alphabet, from above, is a set of
letters which are used to WRITE a language, then the question
remains whether, if one changes the sequence of the letters,
this changes 'the alphabet' or indeed creates a 'new language'.
I still haven't found confirmation of the change of sequence
which Bel Murru mentions above.
both this above source and Bryson's "The Mother Tongue"
indicate that the Roman alphabet did NOT include certain
Anglo-Saxon letters like u-u (double-u, w) or the Norman j.
then again, I just found the following:
...the Carolingian miniscule [which the Normans brought
with them in 1066] prevailed until the end of the
thirteenth century, when it was superceded for nearly
three hundred years by the Gothic, to return in modified
Humanistic form during the Renaissance and give rise to
the first Roman characters.
--------------------------------------------------------
Ibid., p. 273.
______________
so the 'Romanized' of 'Romanized gematria' relates to the
fact that the English alphabet was based on Roman characters,
even though it doesn't appear to have stabilized until at
LEAST the Renaissance (1500-1600s?). I couldn't gainsay Murru's
claims as yet, but it would be helpful to have something more
to go on than his testimony. :>
lovely, jake!
hara
--
mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html
mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/
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