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To: alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.magick.tantra From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva) Subject: Ego, Spirituality and Unification (was ego and spirit don't mix Date: 31 Mar 1999 12:16:08 -0800 49990331 IIIom james lee driftmier: # The modernization (if you will) of the concepts of Tantra, Karezza, # Oceanna, Conscious Loving... etc. is to promote the beautiful union # of the "Two" into the "One" or if you are into the religious aspects # as well, then the "Three" into the "One." The third party is your # choice of "God." this reminds me greatly of something that was repeated often in my studies (mostly in books, sometimes with other devotees; even Kali suggested it as a possibility a time or two): Eventually the god must be left behind, trascended, in order to achieve 'moksha' or liberation. I disagree with this very strongly, and I don't think (though admit of the possibility :>) that it has to do with my fervent devotion to my goddess as I understand Her. this contention makes its appearance in the Christo-Indian statement that everything must be reduced to a 'God-unity'. neither do I see this as necessary nor do I understand that this requires the desertion of the god ('burned away' as was reported of gurus like Sri Ramakrishna). I'd agree that this is ONE way to approach liberation, but there are others. the perspective that ego represents an 'obstacle' to spiritual development is bound up with very specific notions of what the 'ego' represents. Freudian psychology does not seem to favor the Ego, nor in many ways do Eastern mystics who like to adopt Western psychological language to justify or explain their ideas. Jungian and Transpersonal psychologists seem to have more useful ideas about the Ego as a centerpoint of the personality, contrasted with the 'person' which is applied over it as a mask. typically the mystic will demonize the 'ego' rather than come to understand that phenomenon of ego-inflation is but one possible outcome of personal exploration and transformation. those mystical systems which promote 'casting aside the ego' are liable to be misunderstood by those who are fond of what they call 'individuality' and 'egocentricity' as positive and healthy developments of personality. what they come off promoting (rather than 'putting aside buffers between oneself and the world -- the personae) is self-disintegration and self-destruction, especially when combined with some type of guru-chela relationship in which hierarchical, dominating or surrendering activity. this activity on its own can be quite valuable, but I contend that the center of personality is never "lost" or "dropped" except in truly sad cases, becoming drones for the cult. instead, the success of mysticism involves the realization of the self in a clearer and honest personality which has few buffers between the ego and the world. it is truly 'egocentric' in a valuable sense (i.e. 'grounded and centered') and exemplifies honesty, sincerety and, as sri catyananda has made plain in another thread, vulnerability). this clear-centeredness is what I would associate with 'spirituality' as the individual is resolved and freed from the torment of contending personal energies. its climax is what I have identified as 'moksha' or 'liberation' quite aside from Indian cosmological models, and I think it has been described in a number of mystical and psychological contexts (e.g. 'nirvana', 'beatitude', and 'self-realization'. but I don't think that such clarity is ONLY approached by the resolution of the person, the world, the worship, to an undifferentiated unity. it seems to me that the variety of attention-foci exemplified in meditation throughout the world symbolize the corresponding variety of possible means of self-clarifying. that is, it may be done in response to a single object, two (forming a triad), three (forming a quartad), etc., as well as diffusion within an unbounded unity (the preference of many monotheists and pantheists). # This isn't a topic that should promote bickering or competition, # the whole focus is to learn to view the world, and especially # your partner, through a "lense" of love. There is not a right # way for all. What works for some, may not provide the path # for another. anything can become the subject of contention. the religious world is sometimes pent up with a resistance to respectful struggle, thus seldom setting an example of it. those who thereafter engage in disputation will at times venture off into ad hominem and rudeness because they have not caught the meaning of "as brothers fight ye!" in texts like the Evil Book. it is one thing to disagree, another to insult. complaining about bickering is sometimes quite valuable in bringing the conversation around to a more loving atmosphere. however, at other times it is just another way for religious to make one another wrong. my preference these days is to ignore the bickering wherever possible and try to set an example of plain dispute with respect. a number of us doing likewise will eventually set the stage for curtailment of bickering and disrespect, setting a standard that could spread throughout usenet, the internet and the world. call me a utopian :> nagasiva@luckymojo.com
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