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To: alt.magick.tyagi From: i@no.self (!) Subject: Re: Meditation, Psychoactives, and Fasting (was Questions on fasting, ...) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 04:55:31 GMT Johnny: | Has anyone ever tried fasting with meditation? .... yes. especially for those such as you describe yourself (a "food addict"), zazen (sitting meditation) could become more interesting, difficult, and powerful. all would depend on when you decided to time your meditation in the cycle of bodily responses to curtailing ingestion and how familiar you are with the subjective effects of self-observation or focus. initially you may discover a great distraction in the pangs of hunger from stomach and tongue expecting the cycles of consumption to continue; thoughts of food, imaginary tastes, all manner of perceptions might cloud your consciousness and make your meditation full and challenging! later, as you have waited out these initial hunger pangs, you may experience a rush of excess energy, abandoning your grounding and becoming light-headed. sitting during this period is likely to be more difficult unless you are quite used to distractions (such as sitting quietly in a busy downtown intersection -- don't laugh, it is quite excellent practice!); it is very possible that sitting with this type of powerful internal distraction will serve you later for the willpower that it may develop, or you may find that you keep fidgeting and adjusting the zafu, unable to relax and watch quietly with the consumption of juice or water and a bit longer wait, my experience is that sitting can become interestingly easy, perhaps your body wants to shut down and conserve calories due to nutrient reduction; it may be that with such a lack of grounding all sitting may become easy but fruitless (I'd wait and watch as usual to determine the actual effects, either taking on a teacher or journalling your experience in general surrounding meditation) | ...I've been able to say "fuck off" to my compulsions (not always but | I'm getting there). the area of bodily need (food, sleep, sex, elimination, etc.) is the most contentious and controversial for those intending awakening. saying "fuck off", while valiantly expressing the Word of the Aeon (FUCK), especially to processes and activities which are absolute requirements for bodily living, is probably necessary for some of those who feel the need to reject that to which they are otherwise attached. this type of intimate rejection sets the stage for realistic relations to the eating of food and taking of naps. ultimately, however, this extreme position will be left behind for a more moderate familiarity with the trials and successes of life's mastery if you perservere in focussed attention to your own (perfect) processes | Now I'm curious on how far I can safely take this whole will power | concept, because it's so new to me. 'safely' incorporates not only issues of health but of integrity. have a care to coordinate with your physician if there may be any health concerns, and consider consultation with someone at a zendo, ashram, temple, or meditation center near you as regards their recommendations for fasting and meditation | I was thinking about fasting for 3 days, no food, just water. consider working "up" to this kind of fasting, such as minimizing or reducing food intake, focussing on fruits and vegetables, and those foods which leave one less stuffed but provide nourishment. the extremes of yogic self-denial are not suited for everyone, and we are much more likely to dream of what we will never achieve and do nothing than to apply our energies to more reasonable and achievable goals | ...Can anyone give me advice on fasting? consider inquiring of a yogic or new age newsgroup such as alt.yoga or talk.religion.newage, or better yet, some newsgroup actually related to the subject, such as alt.health.fasting (to which this has been cross-posted) | I'm looking for a spiritual journey, but for a little fun too. | It's my understanding that mind altering substances like cannibis | and psychedelic mushrooms can be greatly enhanced by fasting. | Has anyone ever tried this? yes, I have, and I agree regarding the intensification of the effects of such substances upon consciousness, though I suggest to you that the (mind)SET and (environmental)SETTING will also have a great deal to do with the subjective effects, as will body weight, DOSAGE, etc. having a firm grounding in meditation *without* the added variable of psychoactives is likely to yield a more pleasant result Andrew Weil's "The Natural Mind" is a decent introduction to such adventures, but I wouldn't say this is necessarily the most efficient gateway to meditation (because it enhances the power of imagination, which serves as a *distraction* as much as it does a focus of attention) my experiences with psychedelics has been that fasting at least 6 if not 10 hours in advance, perhaps with just water or at most fruit juice before-hand and at most water after Tasting of the Flesh of the Gods; and spending time in an uninterrupted, subjectively *safe* environment (if a first experience of this type perhaps guided by someone who knows what you're doing and respects the spirituality and suggestability of your state of consciousness); can enable a broadening and deepening your spiritual character | Is there a technique to meditation that anyone would recommend or should | I just sit there and try to clear my mind? mostly it depends on the type of person you are and what experience you have had with focussed attention on any particular thing (inclusive of focussed study, reading, etc.) the term 'meditation' means many things to many people, and within certain religious and mystical traditions it takes a particular shape and form, though the overarching commonality that all meditative techniques share is a focus of attention, whether upon one's overall subjective experience (inclusive of one's thoughts and feelings, not trying to change any of it), or upon an object (like a mandala or candle flame), or upon an act like recitation of some word or set of words, or upon one's intentional process (such as trying to restrict thoughts, as you suggest above, or one's contemplation of a specific subject or topic) 'clearing the mind' is often quite difficult for anyone to attempt, especially those of us conditioned to expressive activity in our personal lifestyle as student, because the part of our consciousness which performs, imagines, generates thoughts, visions, etc., has little to no discipline. for this reason many meditation instructors will *not* suggest this, especially as some kind of starting point. more often, the best starting point is merely the assumption of a condition of reposed observation, with an attempt to remain conscious of the abstraction of observation itself -- instead of getting lost in thoughts and feelings such that we next find ourselves rising to attend to some forgotten task or project, remaining seated, focussing on breath in its natural relaxed rhythm, and returning to the present conscious moment, returning once more to the meditation at hand other initial activities valuable for meditation include repetition of a specific thought or verbally reciting some particular syllable or word, regardless of (and perhaps even *avoiding*) any meaning that syllable might have. focussing on a static (drawing, diagram, mandala) picture or limited but mobile (flame, star, breathing, thoughts) object reduces the attention to a specified norm, and allows a kindo f 'target' to which consciousness may return when trailing off on imaginative journeys it may be of benefit to read through FAQs on meditation, such as the one at http://www.luckymojo.com/faqs/faq.zazen--.9410 (Buddhist) or at http://www.luckymojo.com/altmagickfaq/medref (More general), or those which might be located through a search engine. some styles require a particular bodily posture, attendant diet, or focal point. the sincere student of waking will give the most enticing meditative techniques a routinized attempt (once or twice daily perhaps 5-15 minutes) during a period of perhaps 1-2 weeks, and reflect on what, if any, effects might be attributable to it more often I have experienced the kind of broadening and deepening effects on consciousness I consider valuable as an apparent *after-effect* of the meditation period (per day, and over a period of weeks or months), and have rarely, outside the ingestion of psychoactives intended to have such an effect, experienced anything usual or extraordinary such as are at times described in apparent accounts of fantastic breakthroughs by mystics whose writings have been circulated through popular media (books, tv, internet, etc.). with this in mind, you should be prepared to undertake the very fascinating (if at times quite difficult!) activity of meditation. in metta,
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