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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.lucky.w,talk.euthanasia,alt.magick.chaos
From: (xtienfen, CoE) 
Subject: Re: Symbols and Their "Success" (Re: Tarot and Qabalah...)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 05:19:03 GMT

glass@panix.com (Robert Scott Martin):
>>> ...a "symbol" is not successful until it has escaped its author, 

bro lasturvigre:
>>consider the work of Austin Osman Spare in this regard, who seemed
>>intent on forgetting any overt meaning the sigils he created might
>>have in favour of 'losing them to the unconscious mind', kind of
>>like messages in bottles tossed out into the external Mind.

glass@panix.com (Robert Scott Martin):
>Exactly. Once "fixed" through its gestation, the mercurial spirit is
>"projected" -- the philosophical child freed to make its own way in the
>world -- the beloved bird of the mind set free. You know you're done when
>it's done with you.

nonZense, relation to symbol is no necessary determiner of 'success',
else the which Zaw fit to expend all manner of symbols to the cosmos
be "done" and deemed successes. instead, substitute one's subjective
relation to said object in a 'done' Zense and I'd agree.

>In this sort of troubadour cult (de Troyes, thou art avenged), one lives 
>in the absurd conviction that once you set the beloved free, it will 
>return to you in some form -- every call will summon it up, every bottle 
>cast onto the waters will be opened and read. 

in the most covert operations of the Mighty Adepti, the exposure of the
Formula to the vulgar is considered a massive FAILURE. even conventionally
there are countless jokes about those who cannot contain their emissions,
run off at the mouth, and spew forth mountainous volumes of filth. secrecy is a common element of magic and necessary in the preservation of the 
Mysteries. 

>However, many find that the real shudder is not in the possibility of 
>"evoking the Other to visible presence" but in making the call at all. 

now ya see, it just goes to show ya that it takes all kinds to make up 
this dag blasted universe, and while some folks have a hard time at making
calls, others consider it nothing more than a minor task, yet their own
predispositions and aptitudes may slant them toward another direction (the
ability to call overshadowed by an intense need to do so and inability to
sit quietly, for example, or some obsession with collecting information.

>That takes audacity and utter humility, for the servant to demand 
>the master's gaze.

dunno what you mean, master. most of those summoning up some Other seem
to consider it Adversary and attempt to dominate and control It. sad to
say it, but this seems rather traditional.

>The seducer makes no call without reply, even though reply is 
>impossible.  

no comprendo

>"Every truly magic[kk]al act is a success" according to its nature and 
>the perceptiveness of the operator.

close to "every intentional act is a magical act" or 'a truly Magical
Oath cannot be broken' (Crowley).

>>> much as a birth is not complete until the cord has been cut.
>>
>>	TAKE NO HEROIC MEASURES

>Yes dear, but will this symbol outlive you? 

no matter to me -- its spirit is more important to me than its form.
duration is not so important to me as impact. while history buffs 
and fame-seekers fall prey to stories of Shih (Immortal), those taking
direct magical action in support of Satan have no need of one system 
of "success" bent on making anything other (none of this silly sociology 
or mystico-woowoo shite) are taking it. the tools of the trade are as 
nothing to the fact of the Operation, especially where that Operation 
be of the Most Profound. far be it from me to want to focus on the 
preservation of an expendable when the Brass Ring is Right Here offered
by the Sage for the life of Our Very Mother!

>You are at the beginning of an occult career that will be (one trusts) 
>as rich and controversial as any of your cousins enjoyed. I, on the 
>other hand, have grown as frangible as yesterday's coffee filter, and 
>am more concerned about leaving some vital crap behind to follow in my 
>steamy footsteps.

the danger of mortality denied -- it becomes a Thing which stalks those
ill-prepared to face extinction. Smullyan deals with this well in his
arguments against "amounting to something" and "making something of
oneself". all this perishes in our wake. becoming the whispy symbol of
the next cult is feeble in comparison to fostering peaceable revolution.

where is the Beginning, old friend? 

>Your symbol is designed to self-destruct like a dog on the grave of a
>beloved master, or like a hekatomb of slaves mourning old pharaoh. 

more like a field of poppies, POPPIES!

>In fact, it is designed to hasten your death, 

no it is not. it is designed to stop others from ensuring my life.
there is a subtle but important difference. one might endure many
years without heroic measures taken to resume ordinary function.
a negative is not always the opposite of a positive.


>like the loyal squire who makes sure the samurai dies clean after 
>spilling his guts all over the mats -- and after, obscurity. 

lovely! but I'd say more like the caring relatives who fondle and
kiss the deceased after a pure and perfectly chosen death along
the lines of 'Soylent Green' but with greater attention to style.

>That's fine. However, in my crabbed eccentricity, I prefer to build my
>genies bottles of thicker glass, for discovery and use by the youth to
>come. 

I'm sure you'll do just fine!

>Invulnerable sentences in which they may abide when the speaker's
>name is forgotten.

zombies, kleppa

>It is a happy thing for one's children to survive oneself.

dunno, the Monster didn't really seem to be having much fun.